Author Topic: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log  (Read 566 times)

MenschMaschine

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Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« on: June 25, 2017, 06:29:06 am »
Greetings, this is a compilation of a few things i have noticed, one might describe it as a alpha test (b)log.

I will refer to any -weird- things that happen as "bug", even if it is just a missing feature.
Obviously things that are not supposed to be there yet will not fall into that category. (like vehicles)
It's just easier to refer to -all- them as bugs than to differentiate between bugs, problems, glitches, errors, etc.

The numbering is merely for reference, so others can easily point towards them. It does not signal importance.
I probably also will list things that only to me personally seem important, within the scope of gamedevelopment and alphatesting.
That is not to be misunderstood as lecturing or somesuch lunacy.

I feel that the following two things should be... wait... i meant that I feel that the following THREE things should be implemented
as soon as possible (not in 6 months when the next test might happen) as they will help us testers to test the alpha and help the developers
to understand us better and fix things.

I like to add that working within a timelimit for the closed alpha (i am guessing a week before the server gets shut down again) is
not very efficient. I do not say that this is the case here, but we -all- know what happens when games are rushed in production.

A. The loglevel setting could be set to -INFO- (at least) as a default setting, after all, this is a test.
   Better yet would be a setting for that in the options, so people can switch to -DEBUG- when
   a bug needs to be investigated and back to -ERROR- or so when the bug has been reported and the log uploaded.
   (correction: I switched to -DEBUG- and almost got a seizure when i looked at the logs 1,2 hours later, i of course expected them to be big,
   but not -that- big... 150 Mb... °grins°)

B. The chat could be logged into a textfile so people can copy things that they said there and post it in the forum for testing-purposes.
   It is much easier that way than to create or edit a thread or post for every minor, small, tiny issue one discovers.
   (Minor bug: the chatwindow, -stays open- after login and never closes automatically, as it does when opened manually.)

C. I respawned at my house, pressed enter twice fast to dismiss the chatwindow, then my wooden crate simply vanished.
   Having played for 4 hours it was pretty full with tons of stuff, and having lost it for no apparent reason was quite the showstopper.
   The -real- problem however with such misbehavour is that basically, it is useless to play (or playtest) then,
   as such might occur at ANY time again and although playtesting should be more testing than playing, it also should be fun.
   Especially if one wants to test things that are further down the line of research or production, one needs to store stuff for the future.
   Should this bug be too problematic to hunt down or fix, a quick solution would be to enable players to respawn with all their items,
   so resources can be stored in the playerinventory, it is not an ideal solution, since there then only can be one "crate" instead of being
   able to built many, but it is much better than to lose everything. I consider this bug to be severe, even though it might happen not so often,
   because WHEN it happens, it has very serious consequences. Another thing that may help with such problems might be some sort of godmode
   or creative mode, so one can quickly produce the means of testing highly advanced things without having to harvest half the map.
   That though might also ruin the fun of playtesting and result in a more work-like experience °winks°

Onward to the "little" things...

1. The state of the map is not stored, so if we log out, everything that once was explored is hidden again.

2. After closing the crafting window, the selected object reverts to the first one in the list,
   so if i want to check on something quickly, i always have to search and reselect.

3. All windows should be moveable, so we can see ourselves while cooking as an example.
   More importantly, when being attacked.

4. When producing many items (250 planks as an example) lag seems to increase, or in other words,
   if i have a ping of 250 ms and produce 250 planks, other things i try to do while the planks are made can lag behind very much.

5. Respawning does not seem to work always. One ends up in the screenwhere one can choose between respawning and respawning at their own
   bed. Clicking any of those buttons does not anything. One has to log out and in again. This seems to be related to lag.

Note 1: Although with a lag of 200ms and higher (i am located in europe and played for 2-3 hours at such lag) things get a bit difficult
           (combat is very difficult), i never noticed something missing, even when i made 250 planks, they all got created, all clicks that result in some action
           were successfully queued and resolved, even if it took a while. Very good! :)
           
Note 2: It would be useful if every tester opens his or her own thread (there's not -that- many anyways :( ), instead of everyone crissross-writing in everybody elses.
           That way, it can be structured betterly and the developers won't get mixed up in arguements or lost within the testers report because it gets filled with other
           testers findings (or, in the worst case misunderstanding and overtaking) For general discussion http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=952.0
           still could be used maybe.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 04:09:36 pm by MenschMaschine »
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Lurler

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 11:34:52 pm »
Thank you for such a detailed review and report here!

I have compiled the issues that you reported here:
http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=957.0
It also includes things that other players have reported.

Me and ai_enabled also went through and discussed all of your suggestions too :)

Some of that will be implemented in the next couple of days and tried within this test!


ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 03:39:07 am »
We just deployed new build with some fixes (updating according post).

I just want to comment on this:
Quote
A. The loglevel setting could be set to -INFO- (at least) as a default setting, after all, this is a test.
   Better yet would be a setting for that in the options, so people can switch to -DEBUG- when
   a bug needs to be investigated and back to -ERROR- or so when the bug has been reported and the log uploaded.
   (correction: I switched to -DEBUG- and almost got a seizure when i looked at the logs 1,2 hours later, i of course expected them to be big,
   but not -that- big... 150 Mb... °grins°)
Actually we're (almost) never using INFO. Also DEBUG is mostly for networking stuff (logging EVERY command/packet). So by default the logger severity is set to IMPORTANT even on the server.
Perhaps further into the development we will reduce severity of most log entries to INFO level as they're not really that important :-).

Thanks for your detailed feedback, it's very appreciated!

Regards!

ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 04:33:06 am »
Regarding the missing crate/container - it's very hard to find in the logs the reason what happens with it, but I guess it was simply destroyed and all the items disappeared. In the new version the items will drop to the ground in that case - so you will never lose them. The new version is already deployed and the client update is available via AtomicTorch Game Launcher.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 09:56:22 am »
6. Waterbottles
When we make boiled chiken[sic] eggs, it requires a bottle of water. Which then is given back to us empty.
Makes sense, but if we -drink- a bottle of water, the bottle is gone.
I assume it is not water in there, but Vodka Gorbatschow, so we smash it onto the ground after drinking it?
Or, like Rabbids, gulp down the whole bottle and process the glass internally with our amazing stomachfluids? ;D
(Note: It is spelled Chicken, not chiken, pretty much the ONLY spelling mistake in the game, so good work folks, seriously!)

7. The Craftingwindow
I have researched the wohle tech tree but the crafting window shows two messages overlayed across the names of the recipes,
stating that i do not know any recipes. The recipes are still seen and can be selected and the items can be produced.
This only happens in those crafting windows, where we can choose a recipe, which seems logical.

8. The Targeting System
Creatures and Players (i tested that by punching Lurler yesterday) can be attacked and hurt -through- walls.
It seems to depend on the type and/or position of the wall and victim and the position of the attacker.

I was able to kill a lizard at the ruins by walking vertically up and down outside the wall, it followed on the other side
(see point 9)  and now and then, clicking like mad, i could land a hit, until it ran away, the only hits i could land when
it was diagonally above or below myself.

Also, but this is really a minor issue, as it only happens at specific locations, the creatures can be hit while they cannot hit us.
Example: At the ruins is a horizontal wall with a part missing, if a sandcrawler is on the north side of the wall,
i can hit it, but it cannot hit me and it cannot go through the hole, since it is too wide.

9. The Creature AI
It is a work in progress, i know, but a thingy that i still want to mention is that creatures sometimes (always?) seem to be able
to look through walls, so they follow you on the other side of the wall, if you walk along the wall. If that's  an outside wall,
it may be attributed to the creatures senses, like smell or so, but that would be a bit unrealistic.
However, when in the future fences are implemented, it should be noted that those obviously -will- allow looking through them.

10. The Door locking mechanism
I find it weird that we are able to delete ourselves from the allowed list.
The builder of a door should be internally added, without that being revealed to the door.
I do not really see any purpose for being listed there, nor for the ability to delete oneself.

This could be a (future)source of an exploitation by griefers, so it should be changed.

If, for any reason, someone wants to transfer ownership completely, that would happen not very often,
in such a case, it would be easy to just detroy the door and let the new owner build it.

11. Floors and Beds
It would be useful to be able to destroy those, also it would be useful to be able to place floors
in particular BELOW something that is already built. Although i think, removing -those- floors
that are already build below a crafting station, wall, door, etc. will require additional coding beyond
the scope of alphatesting.


Note: oh and many MANY thanks for applying the fixes to the game so quickly. :D
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:02:59 am by MenschMaschine »
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ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 07:47:29 am »
Thank you for your feedback, MenschMaschine!

We just uploaded an update
http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=952.msg6011#msg6011

Issues 6 (including "chiken", thanks for reporting!), 7, 11 resolved.

Issue 8 - current implementation of damage system requires refactoring to fix this and some other similar issues. We will address it in the next alpha test.

Issue 9 - AI is not simply work-in-progress - it's completely a placeholder! :-) So don't worry, someday it will receive a proper implementation.

Issue 10 - UI was updated so you will not see [X] button near your nickname (BTW it was not functional in the previous build, the server will not allow to remove the only owner of the door), but it's still possible by another player which you've added to the owners list to remove you from it. Yes, it might be exploited by griefers, but how often does it happens when someone is betraying you? :-) It might add some spice to the game. Anyway, we will return to discuss this feature in the future, when we will run the open alpha test and will receive more feedback from the players (and griefers!).

Regards!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:50:44 am by ai_enabled »

MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 01:32:00 am »
So, i am going to explode a bit on this, because it is THAT important.

ai_enabled wrote: "Yes, it might be exploited by griefers, but how often does it happens when someone is betraying you? :-) It might add some spice to the game. "

For the sake of us casual gamers, please do not make the same mistake as CCP did with Eve Online. Getting killed and losing the stuff you played for 12 hours and
your based destroyed that you built in 4 days by some 15 year-old wih a godcomplex and a bucket of C4 is N O T funny or exciting or spicey.

The litttle Basteeerd who just ruined the game for you will think it is, yes. But since when do we make games for griefers?
Well °sighs° again, there's CCP, so since 2003. I digress..

I feel weird to say this, you should know this: Do not count on the goodness of people in onlinegames. Ever. There isn't any.


°comes back once more, blushing° oh and... Thanks for the fixes
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Lurler

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 01:40:21 am »
That's the point! You shouldn't give access to your base to people you don't trust!
And if you decided to trust them and they betrayed you - well, that's live! It creates conflict :)

MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 02:17:05 am »
ai_enabled, can you be more precise about what got resolved on #11 please?
I still seem to be unable to damage beds and floors.

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ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 02:24:04 am »
ai_enabled, can you be more precise about what got resolved on #11 please?
I still seem to be unable to damage beds and floors.
Sorry, I forgot to clarify. The damage system will be redone for the next alpha test to allow damaging floor and similar objects (perhaps you will need to hold a Ctrl key to target such objects).
What was improved is that now it's possible to build floors under already built structures.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 04:00:48 am »
12. Plants
    12.1. If we hit plants which give resources, like berrybushes, after the first hit, they do not give berrys anymore.
          This is a possible problem when people run around and attack such plants with 1 hit so other people cannot harvest them anymore.
          I know not yet how this works with farmplants, but if it is the same there, it is a big issue for the closed alpha 3 i think.
          Hm... i just test it a bit, it seems, that hitting a berrybush -only- destroys it's -current- harvest.
          so it is like this it seems:
          hit it once, without harvesting it first, then you can not harvest it anymore,
          -until- the internal timer for the re-growth reaches the point where the new berries should arrive,
          -then- you can harvest it again, unless you punch it again.
    12.2  Damaged plants should heal themselves over time as in real life.

13. The Repairsystem
    I just tried repairing my standard workbench.
    The blueprint states i only need 50 wooden planks yet, to repair it, i also need wooden logs.
    It is a bit of a guessing game that way.
    It should be shown briefly at the bottom right corner, which resources we actually need to repair the stuff OR
    alternatively, restrict the stuff we need to repair things to -those- resources we need to build them.
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ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 04:12:10 am »
@MenschMaschine,
the berry bush takes 30 minutes to mature, then it produces berries every 5 minutes. If you damage it, the berries are immediately destroyed and 5 minutes timer restart.
I'm quite sure there is no bug but it would be better to verify this.

Farm plants don't reset the harvest when you attack them. Attacking them also doesn't restart the timer to the next harvest.

The issue with the repair system is already in our tasks - we will address it at the next alpha test by implementing a tooltip similar to the construction tooltip (it will be displayed only when you has a hammer tool selected and point on a damaged structure).

Regards!

MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 04:17:37 am »
Yes, That's how i thought it would work with the bushes :) You worded it more precise of course.
Not a bug then, just not knowing how it works.
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MenschMaschine

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 05:02:18 am »
8. The Targeting System (additional note)
    It seems that:
    if i am north of a wall and the creature is south of the same wall, IT can hit ME, but i cannot hit the creature.
    if i am east of a wall and the creature is west of the same wall, I can hit the creature, but IT cannot hit ME.

    It also seems to be dependant on the angle of the raycasted(?) Hitline (the tiny red one that appears when you use tools or weapons)
    It mostly only works if that one is diagonal, not when vertical or horizontal.
    It -also- only works when i move.
    I hope this helps.

    I cannot test that yet with guns, i do not have any yet.
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ai_enabled

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Re: Closed Alpha Test #2 B-Log
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 05:05:47 am »
@MenschMaschine, don't bother with the targeting/damage system - it's completely wrong now and will be re-done for the next test. All the issues will be resolved automatically.