Author Topic: Our new game  (Read 8003 times)

Daitallica

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 06:23:42 am »
Awesome stuff, if it's half as good as VoidExpanse this will be amazing.

I'm gonna be really cheeky now but.... how does one get on the pre/alpha/beta etc list ?

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 10:17:47 pm »
Awesome stuff, if it's half as good as VoidExpanse this will be amazing.
I'd like to say it will be ten times as good! Well, it already is, even in current state :)
This is our biggest project so far :)

I'm gonna be really cheeky now but.... how does one get on the pre/alpha/beta etc list ?
Well, there is no way currently. But we are definitely going to invite people to test the closed build. Maybe 50 people or so ideally.
So, please follow our forums more or less regularly at least and you will see the topic with the invitation info :)
I can't tell you the exact date when this will happen, though.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 10:29:47 pm by Lurler »

Daitallica

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 02:51:21 am »
Thank you for getting back to me!
oooooh look forward to that!
Will definitely keep an eye out for that and keep my fingers crossed while I'm at it

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2016, 11:55:16 pm »
And new blogpost is here: https://atomictorch.com/Post/Id1158/CryoFall-DevBlog-5-Crafting

This time we talk about crafting mechanics.



Let us know what you guys think about the choices we made for this specific part of the game :)

Tchey

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2016, 10:25:40 am »
Sounds nice.

I was thinking about something that is really bothering me in many "survival games with intensive crafting".

I hate cutting down 25 trees to build a simple shelter. In real life, i don't even cut one single tree, i only gather a few branches on the ground, set them in specific position, and cover them with smaller branches and leaves. Not need to kill trees. In real life, i would actually not build a shelter if the weather is fine. And i could build it with scraps, stone, wood, plastic, my bag, whatever.

I hate the need to eat 25 apples and 8 meat from dead rabbits, and dozens of roots, each day. In real the food in one of the last part of survival. First, focus not to get hurt, second keep your temperature, third find water. I can stay without risk 1 or 2 weeks without eating anything, only water. After 2 weeks only i will be really weak enought to be in trouble, but even weak i can leave in a good shelter with water for 1 or 2 more weeks. So with just a little food reserve, i could stay several months "surviving the wild".

In real life when i'm traveling hiking in the wood, up the mountain, i'm also careful about my surrounding, i try not to leave trace of my passage, i don't pollute, i don't consume more than i need. I already pollute more than enough by sendng this message from my computer in my appartement...

It's fun to set fire on a rabbit and send him running to my enemies's camp. It's fun to use a machne gun and put down a huge monster from another dimension., and i understand gameplay > real life. Still. I hope you will take real life balance into account. Many people think they can learn by playing, but so many games are teaching wrong things.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 10:31:16 am by Tchey »

ai_enabled

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 11:57:45 am »
Tchey, thank you for the interesting message!
I'm a programmer of CryoFall. The game design (as well as many other development aspects) is discussed with the every team member so we are trying to make decisions by taking into account all the  reasonable opinions (after all, we're making the game we all would like to play). We have a very elaborate design document, with the most of it entries fiercely argued! And the survival mechanics is a big part of it. I'm also have some comments based on my personal experience, so I would like to post my response before Lurler :-).

I hate cutting down 25 trees to build a simple shelter. In real life, i don't even cut one single tree, i only gather a few branches on the ground, set them in specific position, and cover them with smaller branches and leaves. Not need to kill trees.
Exactly! In CryoFall, you don't need to cut the tree completely - it will drop resources at every destruction "step", so you can cut the tree to 75%/50%/25%, grab the logs and branches and go to the next tree. The damaged tree will restore quite fast. A completely cut tree will give more resources, but will not restore at all (perhaps, some new trees will start growing nearby later). If somebody impatient cut too much trees near their settlement, they can plant trees. And of course new trees grows quite slow.

I hate the need to eat 25 apples and 8 meat from dead rabbits, and dozens of roots, each day. In real the food in one of the last part of survival. First, focus not to get hurt, second keep your temperature, third find water. I can stay without risk 1 or 2 weeks without eating anything, only water. After 2 weeks only i will be really weak enought to be in trouble, but even weak i can leave in a good shelter with water for 1 or 2 more weeks. So with just a little food reserve, i could stay several months "surviving the wild".
I totally agree with you! I almost hate to play survival games where you need to eat a several deer to completely fill the satiety bar, the best food is considered to be only meat or some chemical wonder-food, vegetable food is unavailable at all or designed to be a totally useless "decoration", and where you lose all your health instantly when you don't eat for a ten minutes of gameplay. That's unrealistic and, as you said, teaching people wrong things.
I understand that these design decisions are mostly based on the popular stereotypes. Well, I can't blame the game designers of such games as they're applying their common sense and supposing that the most players will intuitively stick to this diet. But that's only increases beliefs in the stereotypes... I think the games exists not only to be fun and provide entertainment, but also to teach people (especially kids) via simulating situations. Educate them, broaden their mind. Especially if the game pretends to simulate a real human life in a realistic environment.

We have a small but very diverse team and this provides us with the benefit of having multiple opinion on everything - including the food approach in CryoFall. For example, I'm a vegan for almost a decade (mostly driven by the impressive health benefits I have since then), fruitarian for many years, tried several water fastings up to 1 week length. I don't recommend all these to anybody without proper consultation and assistance (but I recommend to everybody to start thinking immediately about the diet). So I know the limits of the human body quite good in this aspect from my personal experience (and you too - as I understand from your post!).

The food system in CryoFall was designed by taking into account my opinion as well, and further research was done by Lurler to properly gamify this to fit as the game mechanics. It should be quite easy for beginners to keep their diet ok, but reading the game guides (or consulting with, for example, WHO website) will help them to master their diet and get some advantages. The gameplay will be much deeper and I hope it will provide a good opportunity for players to learn and improve their own diet!

Specifically:
  • There is no need to consume huge amount of food - actually your stomach size is quite limited and various food has various digestion time. Also it's impossible to eat and drink when you're full.
  • You will not die instantly of starvation, but the health points will slowly decrease, and limited energy will affect the heavy activity (such as running).
  • You can survive long on a very limited food supply - but only if it varies (balancing micro-nutrients and providing enough calories).
  • The hydration level affects speed of the energy restore (there are two separate bars for both). Some food also restores the hydration level.
  • Micro-nutrients, calories content and digestion time of the food is not displayed in the game - at least without special tools! And the stomach size is also hidden, so you will need to experiment a little - especially when trying a new food.
  • Eating enough but absolutely the same food is not a balanced diet. The "food problem" is not solvable at long-term aspect by just planting a several hectares of only potatoes as in the most survival games...
  • A proper diet will provide you some meaningful buffs (or perk) as well as an improper diet will provide some undesired de-buffs.

Because the game time is much more faster than the real time, you will need to eat quite often and you will lose your health points with a noticeable speed when starved - but not so often as in the most survival games. Also any perks/buff/de-buff effects will be presented at "active effects" panel near the health bar.

Later we can improve if further by adding the character weight and body composition metrics (we can even visualize skinny/fit/muscular/fat characters as the game 2D skeletal animation system allows us to scale any body part sprites independently, including cloth) and calculating unique movement speed by applying various metrics (the animation speed will be also adjusted accordingly). But of course all this may lead to over-engineering of the game and should be implemented only when we receive enough players requests (via voting, we plan to start Trello board for the new features with public alpha release) and there are no other more important tasks.

Oh, this post is already big enough and now it's too late here, I hope that Lurler will add some words soon.

Regards!

Tchey

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 01:12:44 pm »
Excellent, i feel happy to read such comments from a game developper. So, "they" are not all fat and soda + pizza + frozen steak addicted ! Thanks for taking time sharing your point of view and personal experience.


Tchey

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2016, 12:11:18 pm »
So calm...

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2016, 11:45:12 pm »
So calm...
Unfortunately... :)

We'd like to have more people here, but it seems that until we actually release the first public version people aren't that eager to join the fun :)

But I can at least tell you that currently we are working on the last big thing needed for the closed test, so we will start inviting people to join the test in November.

We are working on the editor currently. Initially we wanted to leave it for later and have procedurally generated world for the test, but in the end decided to finish the editor first, since we will need it anyway. And it will allow us to have a better world when the test starts.

Well, I can only say - stay tuned! It's going to happen relatively soon! :)

madpinger

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2016, 11:04:34 pm »
Sounds great guys.  I think I won't understand how it's different from the other games of it's ilk till I play it.  Regardless of that,  I welcome more of this genre anytime.  It should be fun to see the vision you guys have along with the community take form and experience it. 

I think it's a positive thing that you've moved away from Unity,  I've switched from UE4 to .NET Cote 1.0 RC2 with SFML.NET myself, tho for very different reasons than yours.  I'm going to go read all about your engine now, also prob load up Void Expanse since I've been reminded of it later.  ;)


*edit
Unfortunately... :)

We'd like to have more people here, but it seems that until we actually release the first public version people aren't that eager to join the fun :)

But I can at least tell you that currently we are working on the last big thing needed for the closed test, so we will start inviting people to join the test in November.

We are working on the editor currently. Initially we wanted to leave it for later and have procedurally generated world for the test, but in the end decided to finish the editor first, since we will need it anyway. And it will allow us to have a better world when the test starts.

Well, I can only say - stay tuned! It's going to happen relatively soon! :)
Well,  I like your guys work and am an existing customer, yet just now caught wind of this project via the survey email you guys sent out.  Tho, I'll spam those I know likewise interested, they're a drop in the bucket.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 11:09:59 pm by madpinger »

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2016, 09:32:49 pm »
Sounds great guys.  I think I won't understand how it's different from the other games of it's ilk till I play it.  Regardless of that,  I welcome more of this genre anytime.  It should be fun to see the vision you guys have along with the community take form and experience it.
Well, there are a couple of topics on the forum here as well as posts on our blog that go over some basic ideas of the game. I think it should give a decent overview :)
But as development progresses we will naturally be able to share more info.

I think it's a positive thing that you've moved away from Unity,  I've switched from UE4 to .NET Cote 1.0 RC2 with SFML.NET myself, tho for very different reasons than yours.  I'm going to go read all about your engine now, also prob load up Void Expanse since I've been reminded of it later.  ;)
You don't say... we had enough suffering with unity, so switching to our own engine was a no-brainer :)

Well,  I like your guys work and am an existing customer, yet just now caught wind of this project via the survey email you guys sent out.  Tho, I'll spam those I know likewise interested, they're a drop in the bucket.
Go ahead! We are always glad to welcome more people! :)

kyokei

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 03:55:44 am »
Just read in the survey results that you guys are thinking about player hosted server - if that's the case then count Kunix on hosting a Cryofall server.

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 08:59:17 pm »
Just read in the survey results that you guys are thinking about player hosted server - if that's the case then count Kunix on hosting a Cryofall server.
Thank you for your continued support! :)
And this time we are planning to make it as simple as possible, ideally hosting a server would be just one click of a button :)

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 11:03:13 pm »
°smiles° Greetings,
having read most, but not everything related to this new game, i must say this looks like an interesting project.

°says "This looks like an interesting project."°

There were of course already many comparisons to other games, so i just throw-in my own:
Ultima VII + multiplayer (NOT ultima online), with less detail + obviously, Rimworld.
(in ultima VII every flask and thingy on that chem-lab-desk
(https://atomictorch.com/Images/Upload/10353.png) Hover over it to view this image
would actually be a separate object), which is nice in a single playergame.

But if you have 300+people wandering about, it's probably not such a good idea indeed.

Comparisons to other games are nice to get a first glimpse of what can be expected,
they come mostly from the fanbase though and of course, developers pretty much always
state that their game is different and thankfully, they are also almost always correct :o)

One thing thet immediately sprang to my mind when reading along the posts here
about survival and creating cities and building AND multiplayer was:
I hope they do not plan to implement currency.
It simply does not work.
Especially not, if the skills needed to craft something are linked directly to crafting something.
( make 100 tables to get better at the skill Carpentry which is needed to make better tables )

Then everybody and his uncle makes tables until the market is saturated and the prices for tables
drop so new carpenters cannot sell  their tables anymore, but still NEED to make 100+ tables to be
able to make better tables which sell for more, only that... everyone else already did that too and it
goes on and on.

This system gets worse even when it comes to skills that are used for combat.
Shooting 12000 deer with a bow just to get bowmanship to 100% is not really realistic nor fun.
( Santa Clause also would NOT approve! )
No Berries!

Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 11:28:02 pm »
I hope they do not plan to implement currency.
No worries here :)
We will have currency, BUT it will have inherent value, so it will always be useful by itself, even if you don't plan on trading with other players that much :)

Especially not, if the skills needed to craft something are linked directly to crafting something.
( make 100 tables to get better at the skill Carpentry which is needed to make better tables )
Absolutely not :)
This is a very silly design choice. I really can't belive some people still design games with mechanics like that...
No, we will have better and actually much simpler system when it comes to technological advancement and character skills. You will surely enjoy it!
And just an additional note - this is NOT a MMORPG :)