Author Topic: Our new game  (Read 7512 times)

loudent

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 09:23:03 am »
Absolutely not :)
This is a very silly design choice. I really can't belive some people still design games with mechanics like that...
No, we will have better and actually much simpler system when it comes to technological advancement and character skills. You will surely enjoy it!
And just an additional note - this is NOT a MMORPG :)

While I agree that mass production for skill advancement is a poor mechanic (Among other things, It makes the raw resources for any given item more valuable than the end product) there should be a certain amount of ....not sure how to put....pain? work?  to achieve the highest levels of a crafting skill. If it's something that comes to everyone with no effort than there's no point in having skills at all.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 06:19:34 pm »
One could use several methods, yes.
One that i find quite realistic is that you need to successfully craft an advanced item
with advanced (previously unknown or unusable) materials.

That is then included in a quest of some sort.
As an example, one has to bring the fancy new table to the carpenters guild,
so it can be verified by a mentor or guildmaster.

That can result in a rejection and one has to make another try (there is your pain)
If it is acceppted by the mentor/guild, the new, advanced tier of furniture is unlocked.

To not make players jump out of their windows by the thousands,
the chance for rejection of the item should be fairly low, so that 50%
of them should be successful at the first try, and 75% at the second try and
a guaranteed 100% at the third try. This chancefactor can be further
influenced by attributes and skills.
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Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 09:27:45 pm »
I completely agree with both of you guys. But I think in reality it's much simpler than that.
This may not be the best example, but remember EVE online. It gives the opportunity for each character to specialize in certain area and be useful to their corporation.
We have a somewhat similar approach, but without all this annoying learning queue management and all that.

The tech tree is separated into 5 tech tiers, and each tier has several categories of recipes that you can unlock.

Tier 0 - Absolutely basic recipes that every player must learn, like crafting a hatchet, a bow & arrow, etc. Basically that's your "stone age" equivalent and these recipes are useful when you just start in the game.
Tier 1 - Includes basic technology, like processing metals, crafting stuff from all major tech categories, e.g. weapons, armor, chemistry, engineering, etc. Most players will learn everything from this tier, or at least the majority of recipes.
Tier 2 - Essentially the same as above, but all of these categories specialize and diversify more. At that point you really need to think what path you are going to pursue with your character as you can't learn everything. For example weapons will split into several categories here, two of which would be "normal" ballistic weapons (machineguns, etc.) and energy weapons. Same for all other technology branches. You can choose what most interests you and take that path.
Tier 3 - Even more specialized technology. At that point you can create a lot of absolutely high-tech stuff. Stasis chambers, ion cannons and what have you. Basically all of the tech-y stuff you see in sci-fi movies. To reach that tier you will have to play for about a month or so.
And finally Tier 4 - This tier includes exclusively only "mega projects" as we call them. That could be the ability to build the stuff that is necessary to construct a nuclear power plant, or ability to launch satellites into orbit or create defensive perimeter around the entire city with a city-wide shield generator. That kind of stuff. Usually only select few people on the server will be able to invest time and effort to obtain the technology from this tier, making them extremely important people for any serious group of players on the server.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 09:46:26 pm »
In my view, the problem with the Eve Online system is that everybody, given enough time/money,
can learn everything, so there is no real need for specialization, especially since one can
continue training when being offline.

And yes, Eve's learnig queue is a kinda silly, i've seen folks setting up queues
for a running time of 2 years, as if nothing within their next 2 years in Real Life and
in Eve Online would change. °snickers°

The tiersystem you described, Lurker seems looks pretty nice so far :o)

Edit1: Sorry, it is of course "lurLer". My gyro is not up to full functionality after the long pause here.
Edit2: Apparently, my usual smiley gets transformed into a vomiting monster instead of
           a pair of eyes, a cute nose and a smiling mouth
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:04:09 pm by MenschMaschine »
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Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 09:53:19 pm »
Yup, I think our system should be fun to play with, and extremely easy to use for anyone. But either way we are always open to changes if there will be need for that.

Also, I don't know what I was thinking writing all that stuff above... :)
I should have just copied the relevant section from our concept document.

So, here it is, and with some additional info on how we see players using it.

Tier 0 & 1 - this tier focuses primarily on survival. Player versus the wild. The player must collect food and water, mind his health, build a shelter and try to survive in an unwelcoming world.
- Collect resources from surrounding areas
- Collect food or hunt small animals
- Build a simple shelter from chopped trees
- Create a stove to cook food
- Create simple clothes, tools, weapons
- Slowly improve the shelter and all other possessions
- Explore larger area, possibly even venture into ruins

Tier 2 - when a player finally has taken care of their basic needs they can start thinking of pursuing their specific goals and ambitions. This will be very different depending on a particular play style a player might enjoy.
- Continue expanding the settlement, create garden for sustainable food production or a farm
- Join with other players to make the settlement even bigger or to specialize in particular areas of recipes
- Start creating industrial machines for advanced production
- Create power source and other things that modern technology brings
- Start habitually exploring caves and ruins to collect different artefacts, rare resources and loot
- Explore abandoned laboratories to learn the story behind the events of the game
- Hunt stronger monsters to get rare loot
- Fight other players that might want to have something from the player’s settlement
- Any trade at this level will be between the players directly, exchanging goods (barter) or selling them for money directly as well
- Raid other villages and individual players if desired

Tier 3 - this is where players need to socialize and form groups if they want to get access to advanced technologies and gameplay elements. Obviously it doesn’t mean that all players are forced to do it, but none the less, a significant portion of the players will need to unite into settlements if they want to achieve their biggest goals.
- Continue playing alone in the wild; or
- Create a full blown city and become a ruler
- Build a private house inside an existing city
- Build a store to sell goods
- Build a casino
- Build a hospital and serve patients for a fee
- Build a factory to manufacture goods
- Focus on different crafting areas
- Mint money
- Become an engineer and help expanding the city with new infrastructure
- Build vehicles (cars, trains or ships) and use them for transportation
- Build a transport network (for example railroads)
- Create a private mine, expand it and extract huge amounts of resources
- Become a trader and transport goods between different cities
- Look for newbie player houses and raid them
- Or become a thief and rob houses inside the city (which is quite difficult due to automated defenses, btw.)
- Become a military commander and lead war between different big cities or a soldier that partakes in such war effort
- Become a hobo and ask for free stuff on the streets of a big city
- Build an “Arcade” with computers, so players can visit this establishment and play games that other people have written
- Just continue exploring the world for ruins and caves to find rare and unique loot

Tier 4 - post development, when big cities are long established and players are looking for something grand and exciting to do. This might be different megaprojects for people interested in construction or total war for people interested in fighting other players.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 10:00:06 pm »
Meanwhile, i think it would be helpful, if there would be a closed part of the forum,
just for discussions regarding the closed alpha phase.

You know how it is with people and rumours and expectations...
Certainly No Man's Sky has shown that too much hype can be harmful.

Otherwise, if everyone can talk everywhere about everything,
Like it kinda is in the art and screenshots thread °winkwink°
it will be hell to gather and sort out information.

Especially since many of the features and things in closed alpha might
not even make it into the game, but when such things are being discussed
"in public", well, developers -might be forced- to implement them if enough
people whine and complain.

Also that could lead to people "testing" the game based on discussions,
without actually having access to the alpha, which is just silly.

Again, I mean this only in regards to the closed alpha and their participants.
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Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 10:09:59 pm »
Meanwhile, i think it would be helpful, if there would be a closed part of the forum,
just for discussions regarding the closed alpha phase.
Nah, that's fine. We don't really need to keep that private.
As long as people don't post videos and screenshots on outside resources when we launch the closed test we are happy to have any and all discussions public on this forum.

You know how it is with people and rumours and expectations...
Certainly No Man's Sky has shown that too much hype can be harmful.
Well, we don't promise "we already have XYZ", that we can't deliver. It just makes no sense.
We may express our vision for the future of the game and how we want it to be eventually if everything goes well, but we will never say we have "XYZ feature" until we actually do :)

Especially since many of the features and things in closed alpha might
not even make it into the game, but when such things are being discussed
"in public", well, developers -might be forced- to implement them if enough
people whine and complain.
That's quite true. I'm sure we will reevaluate a lot of our original ideas as the game continues to develop. This is simply inevitable with any complex project like CryoFall.
But even then - I think that's fine. If people have a question why we did something the way we did, or why we didn't put something in the game that we initially planned I will always be happy to explain the reasons.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 10:17:09 pm »
°nods°
At least you got one thing out of the way which traditionally fills 50%
of suggestions-threads of new games' forums.
Multiplayer is already firmly implemented in the plans :-)
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MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 10:22:29 pm »
Sidethought:
How do you plan to (IF you do) prohibit players from de-volving into the common
Rust-animals, where they hunt down naked newbies just for the kicks?

Is there already some form of protection or punishment-system thought about?
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Lurler

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 10:35:46 pm »
Sidethought:
How do you plan to (IF you do) prohibit players from de-volving into the common
Rust-animals, where they hunt down naked newbies just for the kicks?
Is there already some form of protection or punishment-system thought about?
This is extremely good point. This is THE pillar that can make or break the game in my opinion.
We certainly have some ideas to address this. Plus we want to build all systems in the game around this point.

We don't want players mindlessly murdering each other... This is not that kind of a game.
Don't get me wrong, rust is a fun game, but CryoFall is something entirely different.

I can't really say much now, as we haven't had even one proper play-test where there are many players playing the game yet together. We will have better understanding of this issue after we launch the closed test. But I can at least say that we have a section of the concept document dedicated to that specific issue :)

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 11:01:20 pm »
°smiles°
Phew, thanks for that!

I am not much into PvP, i am here to play, not to "prove myself".
Some form of dueling system would be nice (and with players building cities and casinos,
an arena of some sort will probably be implemented, or at least asked for).
Much worse though i find a forced PvP-system like Rust or Eve Online, where
essentially griefers are not only allowed but rewarded.

And yes, in my view, even if such behaviour is quite realistic, people who hunt down naked newbies
ARE griefers just like like anyone else who tries intentionally to ruin other players fun, regardless how "boring"
that might appear to the bullies.

Such behaviour has had place in the real world where it was about the survival of the fittest
but in games there is no such system in place, not to mention and yet doing it: We all get resurrected.
There is no natural selection process, unless you see it from a griefers point of view like
"Yeah, if he's so weak that he quits the game after me and my 20 chums killed him off for the tenth time after he spawned anew, he doesn't deserve to play this game HARHARHAR"

°cough° Sorry, got carried away there for a moment...
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Samui

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2017, 02:29:51 pm »

I am not much into PvP, i am here to play, not to "prove myself".
Some form of dueling system would be nice (and with players building cities and casinos,
an arena of some sort will probably be implemented, or at least asked for).
Much worse though i find a forced PvP-system like Rust or Eve Online, where
essentially griefers are not only allowed but rewarded.

PvP is a solid part of fun for many gamers, I think that it will be better to open separated PvE and PvP servers.
Nobody talks about rewarding griefers, but, imo, "free PvP" must be implemented in game like CryoFall.

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2017, 05:46:58 pm »
PvP is a solid part of fun for many gamers, I think that it will be better to open separated PvE and PvP servers.
Nobody talks about rewarding griefers, but, imo, "free PvP" must be implemented in game like CryoFall.

I was not suggesting in any way that anyone talks about rewarding griefers.

I think that such servers won't help, because then you have full PvP-Servers and no one
goes to the PvE servers. Much better would be a system where one can opt-in to PvP
or a system where PvP is not abused grief PvE-players.
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Samui

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2017, 05:57:43 am »
Tell them the truth! The core gameplay is finished and we're playing it 24/7 with red eyes and starved to death. It's crazy addicting. We just cannot stop playing and I'm afraid we all will die soon! But the good news is if we don't die the game will be the most addicting game in the history! Addicting enough to keep you alive and play forever... :o ;D

Best game review ever! =)

I think that such servers won't help, because then you have full PvP-Servers and no one
goes to the PvE servers.

I think it depends on which region players from. Western Europe and Northern America mostly "populated" with PvE fans, when Eastern Europe are known for "hardcore PvP lovers" =)

MenschMaschine

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Re: Our new game
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2017, 11:11:01 am »
°presses indexfinger onto earpiece°
My Public Relations Assistant just informed that i should not comment.
Well, on with the weatherreport then
°grins weakly°
No Berries!