Author Topic: A Cancer Growing in this Game  (Read 409 times)

Dax_Tarvish

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A Cancer Growing in this Game
« on: October 06, 2018, 09:26:15 am »
So I have been playing now for a few weeks from previous wipe to today. Before anyone gets crazy on me, which some of you will anyway, I understand this is a full pvp game. I am totally fine with that. I have killed and been killed, raided and been raided multiple times. In the previous version I could only stand and watch with a luger in my hand while (2) players in full assault gear and heavy weapons blasted thought my 3 stone walls with modern bombs and then shot me dead, looted my whole base (10+ days of hard work) and destroyed every single chest and item I owned. They did the same to a friend of mine who plays also. What did we do? We started over and shrugged it off. When the server was wiped I went off to gather after 4 hours of setup and came back to our base blown into and everything taken along with all my furnaces, chests, items etc destroyed. We laughed about it and carried on. So I get the intention of the game. My friends (6 of them) and I get it.

Now to the cancer. There are several players who log in and do nothing but threaten other players, curse and say aggressive, nasty, and sometimes sexual comments. They kill new players and at times dont stop typing in horrid things. There is no way to mute them or block them so you have little choice but to watch as the violent and often diry commentary scrolls by endlessly. They have been driving players off, from what I hear. Now that part I cannot, at this time, say more about as to the name of pleyers who may not want to be brought out into the open. There new trick is to wall people into their base. Just now they had walled a fairly new player into his base with, from what he said in chat, was 5 rows of wooden walls around his base. He could not get out (unless he used the stuck feature) and then could obviously not get back in. This is what you want to have in your games? This is the epitomy of griefing, bullying, and general assholery. They hide behind the statement "This is a pvp game so shut up" but this goes way beyond pvp. This is the lowest form of online human nature. I assure you this is going to impact your sales of thsi game moving forward once word gets out that there are people like this who play.

I understand you cannot 'police' such people who act like this and that it is a common sign of the times for pvp games. But this needs to be put out in the open so perhaps at least some changes can be made, such as either not allowing walls to be built right up against a claim or allowing such walls to be crowbarred down by the person who is trapped. I, personally, as well as all my friends will not pay to play a game with such nonsense. Also, there needs to be implemented a way to mute or 'ignore' such players so i don't have to sit there watching their nonsense and bullying endlessly scrolling by my screen.

The shame is that you have a truly remarkable game here with great depth. I can see the love put into the creation of this game and would genuinely hate to see it end up with reviews such as other games with a hateful and nasty community. Take my words as you will. I will not comment to anyone who replies with hate speech. It is simply my opinion, and that of my friends.

Best regards,
Dax Tarvish

Daitallica

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 10:21:06 am »
It definitely needs to be addressed. I've seen at least 6 people quit and never come back.
That's damaging to the game.

They're losing the devs potential customers which could potentially stop them from working on it

arixson

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 11:11:17 am »
Hello, I am a somewhat active player who is rather disenfranchised by all of the peoples who seem like they came from WoW or other such games where it is basically seemingly allowed to have racist and sexist tirades against other players, not to mention what is now termed griefing...

Yes, this is a PvP game, but being allowed to 1. wall people in so that they then have to use the unstuck command to get out of their base, which then makes it nigh impossible to get back into their base. 2. be called all sorts of names and such wherein that language makes a lot of people not want to come back. 3. if this language is allowed then the game should be rated M or even X in some cases which WILL lose players as we/they/I don't want to be bombarded with such things almost constantly, it is bad enough to not 100% understand what I am being called without using google translate, to then be called things that outside would and has gotten people shot or worse....

Cursing is one thing, but racism, sexism, transphobia, and other hate speech is 1. NOT NEEDED, 2. ILLEGAL, 3. Removes a lot of the potential audience, and for the price being requested to buy the full release of this game, I think that there should be a lot more monitoring of language like this, or a toggleable language filter, or even servers where you can't use such language and further attempts beyond simple cursing will get you booted.

Being able to ignore people should honestly have been a part of the basic client release, not what seems like "a new feature that is being added", A car is not a car without wheels, an MMO even PvP Sandbox is not such without what now is Basic Social Implementation.

 >:(  :(  :-\  :'(

Jpeasy

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 11:57:51 am »
I agree 100% the griefing is bad, I've had my 4 doors all blocked with wooden walls, luckily I had the supplies to build another land claim then tear them down with a crowbar. Would have stopped playing instantly if that was not the case.

Xargt

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 02:09:20 pm »
Whoa.

I just woke up, around 5 am here, but men, after reading entirely, this really made me wake up.

Play against players with their walls with walls? I have to say... that is brilliant and at the same time absurd!

I'm aware of the community, but not 100%. At least I got the idea of what Dax is saying. But I also have to say, there are points that are not mentioned here. These guys, that you probably are referring to, were not the ones who started the trick. This trick was used against them, figured a way around it, learned from the trick, and applied it.

My point is, at the end, I'm thankful we have them, including whoever started this, to test the game with us before the release. I'm sure it's obvious that it will be a lot harder to track things when there are massive things that are happening. I'm also thankful that you guys brought this topic.

To sum it all up, chill.

I agree with everything that has been discussed here.

So... are we going to have extra layers from our "Land Claims", around 3-ish, that is an area outside that cannot be built by any players? Any good ideas to solve this issue will do.

...
EDIT: wait.. my idea is bad. It will not do. Maybe.. only allow buildings to be built inside the owner's Land Claims area?

I'm not sure if this is going to be pay to play game. But if it is, I think this will help prevent players from creating too many accounts. ...Not 100% effective, but at least it helps. I'm sure there are better and more effective ways.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:53:05 pm by Xargt »

Xargt

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 02:11:46 pm »
Also, about the chat functions, I'm pretty sure this will be implemented soon. Devs are working on it.
Check Roadmap.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 02:27:23 pm by Xargt »

Mozzarella

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 02:56:58 pm »
I played for a few days on here with a friend, pretty fun and well made game. Some guy came by my base and tried to kill me, so I killed him. We log off and they didn't like the fact that someone could stand up to them. So as we were offline they put walls all around our base. Thankfully some really nice people showed us how to remove grief and it's gone now. But this shit is just ludicrous. This isn't fun in any way when people can do this. I don't want to move to PvE, PvP is fun. griefing is bullshit and annoying and is made for toxic people with nothing better to do all day than ruin our experience on this game. We need more than just better defenses and walls. We need to get rid of this dumb griefing. It takes 1 hour to grief someone and ruin it all and it takes 10 hours to farm for a well built, secure base. This needs more attention, more than just ignoring the problem and making some boring PvE servers.

Djekke

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 03:08:05 pm »
Solution is simple - turn off global chat, only local one stayed.

Dolingen

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 10:04:13 pm »
I too witnessed this toxic behaviour in the chat and took screenshots of people saying racist things, even one of the commentators on this very thread posted something racist in the chat, i took a screenshot so i could show it to the developers as evidence of inappropriate behaviour.
I have already contacted the developers about this problem in discord, I understand it is a PVP server, but this other behaviour is not needed.
Personally I have been called the B word for nothing i was just walking around the map and was shot at and then called the B word.
I have also witnessed people constantly referring to autistics in a negative light in the chat by saying i am not autist! and things of that nature.
This is a big turn off for me personally and made me want to make play on my own private network rather than seeing that sort of thing in the chat.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:13:52 pm by Dolingen »

Lurler

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 10:04:17 pm »
So, I want to say a few things, so you guys understand our position on this.

As you probably know, most of these issues came up only with the latest update where we have significantly more new players playing the game. Now that the problems are known we can decide on a solution. But you have to understand, even when the problem is known to us it still takes some time to make changes to address it.

First, let's take abuse in chat. This is absolutely not acceptable, but thankfully it is something we can address relatively easily. We are already working on a chat filter system that would prevent people from using abusive language there. But also on individual mute button that would allow you to block any players you don't want to hear in the game. We will work on this in the upcoming versions too and hopefully eventually we can settle on a decent system.

Now, about PvP. Yes, the game is 100% PvP and there is not much we can do about large groups of people ganging up on individual players. Large groups would always have advantage unless we completely neuter the game and set some hardcoded rules to prevent it. But then it would severely limit what players can do in the game making it into a completely different thing. So, rather then combating this, where large clans can dominate smaller ones or individual players our goal is to balance the game in such a way that even small players have means available to them to retaliate as well as deincentivizing large clans from even attacking small players in the first place. There has never been a perfect solution to this problem in all history of gaming, but we can at least try to get as close to it as we can. Plus, we will also launch PvE servers where it shouldn't be a problem at all and allow people to play in a peaceful environment.

And finally, the griefing. As you probably noticed, our last version (A16) has had already quite a large number patches most of which were specifically aimed at addressing different forms of griefing and exploiting that we witnessed. It is not something that can be solved in a week, but we will continue working on it and hopefully eventually we can prevent most forms of obvious griefing that we know of. But again, if someone wants to be an asshole they would always find a way to cause grief to another person. That's just the nature of people unfortunately.

Bottom line it, we are aware of the problem and we are working on it, so please be patient and we will address all of the know problems in time.

Swiur_Yngwi

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 11:35:25 pm »
Now, about PvP. Yes, the game is 100% PvP and there is not much we can do about large groups of people ganging up on individual players.

Well, u know my opinion on that already. And a proposal of a solution which I already gave you few weeks ago.

http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1075.0

I hope THAT day will come in which you will start taking it seriously under consideration.

About PVP. Yes, it is. But it cuts both ways. You don;t need to kill other players because of PVP definition of the game. You can cooperate with other player and it is still in PVP definition of the game. It is us, players, to decide, which path we choose. And I see there are more votes against PK in pvp, than for. So, Devs, at least admit to trying to do something because you loose your potential customers every single day.

So, rather then combating this, where large clans can dominate smaller ones or individual players our goal is to balance the game in such a way that even small players have means available to them to retaliate as well as deincentivizing large clans from even attacking small players in the first place.

Could you please say more how you want to achieve this? All means available to a player will be automatically available to a group of players, since they are still players. Or, if you want to buff single and nerf team, they will hang around not as a team, just a loose group of accidentally met people going for a raid, accidentally on the same target. I am so curious about your ideas on that....

Xargt

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 12:29:39 am »
Well, u know my opinion on that already. And a proposal of a solution which I already gave you few weeks ago.

http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1075.0

I hope THAT day will come in which you will start taking it seriously under consideration.

I haven't read all the conversation yet, because when I saw "Punishment", it's good enough to get my attention.
Welcome to Earth, where there will always be a war and peace. People try to maintain peace by making laws, but there are always smart people that can go around it. So people implement another laws. So on and so forth. Whoever gets tired first, loses. No. There will always be new set of people. New generation.

In other words, this is an intricate thing, implementing laws such as "Punishment" on a PvP server.

What if the children became the law breakers?
So you'll try to make another law. There will always be a lot of "what ifs" to be followed.

In a game, that would turn into an infinite bytes of download.

I don't want to be a smart***. I just want to help you understand.

About PVP. Yes, it is. But it cuts both ways. You don;t need to kill other players because of PVP definition of the game. You can cooperate with other player and it is still in PVP definition of the game. It is us, players, to decide, which path we choose. And I see there are more votes against PK in pvp, than for. So, Devs, at least admit to trying to do something because you loose your potential customers every single day.

Please don't use words such as "you loose your potential customers every single day."
It's very irritating to read in my opinion. I feel you want to help the game. I feel you're frustrated. Chill, and you'll notice you'll become better than before. Angry people are loosing awareness, especially to the obvious things.

There's a way to avoid PvP. Host your own server. Invite your friends with you. Friends in real life or in game you've just played with. Devs are implementing ways to make hosting a server a lot easier. We just have to wait.

...
Thanks.

Xargt

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 12:51:59 am »
Damn it. If I don't like this game this much, I won't be spending a second to write in a forum.  ;D

Please. I want to stop writing in any game forums. I'll stop now, thank you. You guys are on your own. <3
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 12:57:01 am by Xargt »

Swiur_Yngwi

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 03:26:13 am »
Please don't use words such as "you loose your potential customers every single day."

We play together on the same server. I see what is just happening there - insults, stupid PK, rage quititing. For you it is all ok? Then lets wait for steam release and comments and grades people will give to Cryofall. I presume it will be a disaster.

I feel you want to help the game. I feel you're frustrated. Chill, and you'll notice you'll become better than before. Angry people are loosing awareness, especially to the obvious things.

There's a way to avoid PvP. Host your own server. Invite your friends with you. Friends in real life or in game you've just played with. Devs are implementing ways to make hosting a server a lot easier. We just have to wait.

I do want to help the game because I just love its potential. And yes, I am frustrated, because i am affraid all hard work Devs did so far will be gone and wasted by a bunch of hostile players, discouraging others by their stupid actions. People will come, dissapoint and leave, forgeting the name Cryofall.
And I am chilled about myself. I play this game for weeks now, I know its mechanics, I experience the changes, I reach the goals I put to myself. I can follow or quit any time now. Keep in mind or simply forget. Just like all my friends in the game.  But it is not about me and my feelings why I do share all my impressions and suggestions here on forum.

Lurler

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Re: A Cancer Growing in this Game
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2018, 04:03:33 am »
Well, u know my opinion on that already. And a proposal of a solution which I already gave you few weeks ago.
http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1075.0
I hope THAT day will come in which you will start taking it seriously under consideration.
We consider all feedback seriously. Even is some idea not used directly it always gives us other ideas or alternative solutions that can be used.
I personally read ALL messages on the forums and on discord. Every single one. And I try to imagine myself in the shoes of a person who gives this feedback.
But to reply to your specific point - sorry if I sound a bit blunt when saying that - but your suggestion simply wouldn't work. There are many more angles that you need to look at the problem. There are always ways around any system. And as ai_enabled replied in your original topic - read that article and see how it is always a losing battle. Not matter how complex the system is - there is always ways around any limitations.

Could you please say more how you want to achieve this? All means available to a player will be automatically available to a group of players, since they are still players. Or, if you want to buff single and nerf team, they will hang around not as a team, just a loose group of accidentally met people going for a raid, accidentally on the same target. I am so curious about your ideas on that....
Our strategy is to use iterative process. Do not try to solve all of the problems in one go. It never works.
Instead, try to solve individual elements of a larger problem or goal by implementing specific small changes, consequences of which are clear. Then observe them in action and do another iterative round of changes and eventually you will arrive to a great and balanced solution.
We apply this approach to problem solving and to gameplay balance and mechanics and it works great so far for us.

Anyway, I merely expressed our position regarding issues raised in this topic and I hope our position is clear.
We are not happy about those things and we will try to address them as best as we can and as fast as we can.