Author Topic: Regarding base roofs (and fog of war)  (Read 201 times)

ai_enabled

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Regarding base roofs (and fog of war)
« on: February 24, 2020, 08:14:31 am »
First, thanks to @Avakyn for editing this text to make it clear and concise.

Roofs for bases (PvP servers)
At first, we wanted to introduce them and thought about it for more than three months before discarding the idea and starting looking for other solutions. Unfortunately, hiding the base completely, including walls, will make the game completely unbalanced for everyone playing PvP.

Here is why:
Currently, the raiding cost is predictable because the base layout is visible. The raiding outcome (the loot) is not unpredictable so there is some risk. If we add the roofs, the raiding cost will also become unpredictable.

The result is raiding is such a high risk that most players will prefer to craft a lot more bombs so they are prepared to ensure they can get into every room (costing much more time to set up a raid) instead of making calculated strikes. This will favor large groups of players who have a larger number of resources and can afford the risk of wasting bombs.

Example
You're a solo player, crafting even a dozen of C4 is hard for you. Currently, you can calculate the number of bombs you need and make a perfect strike. But let's add roofs. You've crafted a reasonable amount of bombs and go to raid and get nothing from it because you did not have enough bombs to destroy that last wall preventing your access to the loot.

There is no way to ensure your bombs will not be wasted. You will raid a few times and quickly conclude that often you get absolutely nothing (as you have not enough bombs). So to make a profit, in the long run, you need to raid much more often—but you cannot craft so many bombs as you're a solo player.

In the end, smaller groups and solo players cannot profit from raiding over time as the risk-reward ratio is too large. Imagine a large group; wasting a few bombs for them is not a problem, so they will raid often and less affected by the random outcome of the raid.
 
Bottomline
Small range risk-reward for raiding (as now) is balanceable and easy to predict. But large range risk-reward for raiding (as with roofs if we add them) is not balanceable, and the first victims of such change would be smaller players and groups. Yes, you would feel more protection with roofs (nobody disputing this). However, the result is that your own raiding capabilities are crippled.

Raids become a lottery with a very high range of risk-reward, where a loss is that you don't get any loot at all. Unlike the current system (without roofs) when you at least could get access to the crates (if you've calculated the number of bombs correctly, which is straightforward as soon as you learn how much bombs the wall worth).

However, that's not the end of the idea. See my next post.

ai_enabled

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Re: Regarding base roofs (and fog of war)
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 08:21:31 am »
What we're considering now is a fog of war idea. The base layout (only doors and walls) would be still visible, however, the interiors (including buildings and players inside) would be hidden from the outside. With this approach, we can provide certain benefits of roofs idea without making the cost of raiding unpredictable.

That's an idea the team wishes to experiment with in the future. Meanwhile, we believe there is a higher priority proposal which needs our attention first: Proposed feature discussion—S.H.I.E.L.D. (offline raiding protection) (please have a look and considering providing your feedback there).

Regards!

WarStalkeR

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Re: Regarding base roofs (and fog of war)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2020, 06:57:39 am »
Regarding Roofs: they should be solely used to cover/define area with walls and optionally with door as "indoor" area that isn't affected by weather effects and external environment. Indoor area of course can't be used for farming, unless equipped with greenhouse equipment (to sustain closed environment). If roof will be implemented as means to "hide" the base, means to scout/scan area should be implemented as well. Or, just make walls visible all the times, because "roof is being held by walls, thus walls are always visible" and such things as planning amount of explosives should be possible with ease.

Regarding Fog of War: implementing fog of war directly as in RTS not really suitable for CryoFall. What CryoFall needs is visibility mechanics, where non-static objects (i.e. animals, players, etc) are visible depending on their visibility levels, which affected by their actions (such as standing still, walking, running, shooting, consuming items, gathering loot or active usage of stealth generator/suit). This will allow nice stealth gameplay and at the same time it will prevent players from abusing it, since player won't be able to shoot while being invisible (1st/2nd shot (depends on weapon) will increase to the levels, where everybody will see the player from far away). Of course it should come with countermeasure features such as radar/scanner on base that will zero stealth (or max visibility) of the target with each radar/scanner swipe.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 07:12:14 am by WarStalkeR »