Author Topic: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking  (Read 3043 times)

loudent

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ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« on: July 09, 2015, 04:35:11 pm »
So, this can only be achieved by mods but if you have a combined -100% to turning then the ship becomes completely unable to turn at all. Which is kind of game breaking since you can't even return to the station.

This was achieved by someone using a mod with a ship that had -90 and added my cargo pods which added another -10. I think that there should be some checks to make sure that is some minimal turning ability even at numbers at or greater than 100%

-loudent


Lurler

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 09:17:32 pm »
Well, duh :)
Same would happen if you put HP to zero, you'd just blow up.

And while I completely agree with you - the bottom line is, we can't prevent people from doing silly things in their mods. It is their responsibility to ensure that what they are doing makes sense :)

MenschMaschine

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 09:26:45 pm »
If you have 1 apple, that's 100% of apple.
If i take away from you 100% apple, you have -100% apple, or better said, no apple.
That sounds perfectly logical to me.

There is nothing gamebreaking at all involved.
As i see it, the developers of a game can not to be made responsible for effects
that result from combining modifications that on their own work perfect.

If someone uses a mod-combination that renders his or her game unplayable...
well... That's kinda dumb, i'll say.

Much more important though, it is NOT to be blamed on the developers and
i find it very weird that this turns up here in bugreports. Because it aint a bug,
it's  wrong usage of mods by a user.

Edit: As i started this post, Lurlers post was not published, mine just took longer to type
( i am probably older ;o) )
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 09:30:33 pm by MenschMaschine »
No Berries!

ai_enabled

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 02:01:08 am »
Well... taking into account that in such case the game become completely unplayable and you cannot load previous savegame (just because there is only one savegame per world and autosave happens when you undocking from the station)... I've added checks for maneuvering and acceleration, so the ship will be able very slowly turn and dock to the station in such cases. It's done in v1.4.9 (uploading now).
However, it's not protecting against -100% structure or -100% max speed. To properly fix that we need to define min-max values in effects definitions, so the game will clamp automatically result value in acceptable range. We will do this later.
Regards!

MenschMaschine

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 04:09:41 am »
*sighs*
Now you opened the doors wide for all sorts of stuff,
why focus on some problem that clearly is a users creation
instead of, like Lurler meant already, reminding them to use
their brains when selecting mods.

But, to not end without a constructive idea, which is bad:
A better solution would have been to check if
Maneuverability Or Max speed is 0
(and ONLY those two need to be checked because in any other case
you still can fly back and dock and change stuff. Sure, it might take a while,
but people do not learn without experiencing pain anyways >;o)= ) .

That test could be implemented directly into an undock function
and if any of those two variables are 0, you cannot undock and
you get a message describing that situation with a hint to check
your mods.

Neatly done, it could be an Undock sign with black and yellow
diagonal stripes and a message from the harbourmaster, saying that
there was an incident and you cannot launch with your shipconfiguration.

That way, the allegedly (!) gamebreaking thingy becomes even (RP)game-enhancing *winkwink*
No Berries!

ai_enabled

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 10:23:05 am »
MenschMaschine, it's a temporal patch, just because some players may ruin the game if they install two independent mods: they will be unable to dock back to the station, unable to load a previous savegame because there is only single savegame per world, unable to disable the mod because the savegame will require mod to be active, otherwise it simply won't load. So it's a very frustrating experience for some players. We've discussed it with Lurler and decided that we're devs who care, not a devs who punishing... :-)
We will implement a proper fix in the future updates.

loudent

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Re: ships with -100 manuvrability is game breaking
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 07:48:54 pm »
If you have 1 apple, that's 100% of apple.
If i take away from you 100% apple, you have -100% apple, or better said, no apple.
That sounds perfectly logical to me.

naturally

Quote
There is nothing gamebreaking at all involved.

But it is. There is only one savegame if you happen to not be paying attention and get yourself to -100% maneuverability then that game is essentially lost. you cannot return to station to remove the items that bring you to -100%

Quote
As i see it, the developers of a game can not to be made responsible for effects
that result from combining modifications that on their own work perfect.

I'm not saying that it is their fault. However, this has happened and now that players game is unable to be played at all. Anyone with technical know-how could probably edit the mod to remove the maneuver penalty and hope that fixes it enough to get back into the station but for the general player that may not be so simple

Quote
If someone uses a mod-combination that renders his or her game unplayable...
well... That's kinda dumb, i'll say.

Anyone is capable of making a mistake. Sometimes you just don't pay attention. I only brought this up because someone had reported on one of my mods that their game was unplayable.

Quote
Much more important though, it is NOT to be blamed on the developers and
i find it very weird that this turns up here in bugreports. Because it aint a bug,
it's  wrong usage of mods by a user.

I didn't blame them, however I put it in bug reports because they're the only ones that can fix the problem for users that run into this.