Messages

[need time]

But thn you proceed to suggest something even more aggressive, train and track stuff would be even harder to implement.

I only wanted to point, that devs need time to work every idea through. Believe me, as far as I know them, they are open for every new suggestion and content.  Roads are very good idea, so may be trains. Cheers 

Putting bottle in the well is a method, but if i need alot of water bottle now, i would prefer the 2 method i mentioned, either give us LP for our effort of continuously clicking, or let it be a automatic repeat action.

Very simple solution. Multiple wells + lots of bottles + storage barrels = infinite water

I still remember how to fill 600 bottles with see water to cook salt of it (before salt lakes were introduced it was pretty much the only way to get salt) 

15 minutes of clicking on PVP  - quite an adventure 

[very big respect]

Sanky, I like your suggestions a lot. But please keep in mind, that Cryofall was earlier made by 3 (three) people and I think still is. They just need time to introduce all new ideas along with keeping up all daily business. I am impressed how this game developed in past months so very big respect to the devs.

I especially like the idea of connecting "towns" with infrastructure. Road tiles, combined with mini landclaimers would be good. Even better, IMHO, as I am a big fan of trains, would be ....trains 

How I see it? Special tech to unlock the whole infrastructure. Expensive in LP, so only for a dedicated group of players. A team of "railroaders", that will built, maintain and provide paid services of transport from A to B.  Passengers and cargo. Why paid? To give more meaning to currency and trading goods in game.  The infrastructure itself (tracks, train station, etc) would have built in "landclimer" and a safe zone (no weapon, no hostile actions). To avoid the situation that a base will be surrounded by tracks, first two train stations need to be build, and the distance beetwen must be at least for example 500 tiles.

Or, when fraction is introduced, it could be in gesture of "Major" to order building a train station in their community. There are many possible solutions because the idea has a great potential, IMHO.

I did mentioned it earlier on discord when discussed the implants options, but there was no response. Therefore I do it here again.

Implant or structure: tranportation drone. Cannot be destroyed or looted. 4 slots of storage. Route - between two points set by structure or implant (landing base, recharger, etc).

Cryofall Parcel Service (trademark ). Structure where u prepare and send a parcel to a dedicated coordinates. Can be done automatically by the game or ...by other players that are willing to earn some money. Service cost will be 5% of the package value, based on the average price of items inside parcel, counted from all TS in service.  Parcel cannot be inspected and looted by the "delivery man", returns to starting point, when "delivery man" gets killed.

At the start I want to emphsise: I was focusing most of my ingame time on trading mechanics. It was my main goal in this server run to test it.

- How often do you need to restock? How many times a day?

I tried to restock the machines twice a day. Like every 12 hours (that also depended on my free time i could spent in the game). Normally it took me two runs for each market: once to see what is missing and second - to deliver goods.

- Is the storage capacity enough?

Well, hard to say. On one hand, it could be bigger -> more goods will be stocked. On the other hand, when TS is destroyed, more goods will be lost too. Sometimes i wished to have more display options (in big machine u can set up up to 6 products). So, yes, 4 slots in storage and 2 in display could be useful.

- In trading stations that buy items - how do you control how many of each items you want to buy?

In the current system it is mostly impossible. Mostly because of its simplicity. The only way I see to control my demand is to set every single needed product/resource in separate machine. And control it by amount of coins in each one.

- How many coins do you typically keep in each trading stations?

Like mentioned before, I tried to leave about 30% of my income in the buying machines. So, when after 12 hours I grabbed like 1500 coins, 500 was reinvested. It could change slightly depending  on my ongoing needs and prices set for buying. Now I don't keep more than a 1000 coins in every buying machine.

- How do you decide how much of each type of goods to stock?

To use storage space to maximum, stack was my main number. But I had always keep in mind that TS can be destroyed and then I lose what is inside. So all resources were in one stack maximum. Usable items, like bandages, cigars, vodka - up to 5 stacks. Ammo - up to 4 stacks maximum. For unitary items, like hazmat suit, armour, weapon - up to 3 units. For low tier unitary units, like leather armour - up to 5 units each type. Very important! U need to leave one slot in storage free - for coins.

- Do you advertise your services in any way?

Yes, I did. I wanted all players to know about my market. So, almost every time i restocked the machines I gave info about that on global chat with coordinates to the place. And it worked pretty good. But of course it would be nice to have a possiblity for more "agressive" marketing, like banners, TV commercials (when eletricity is introduced). And more building options in area of trading would be good too. Like - "welcome" entries, signboards, etc...

- Do you have regulars? If so - do they leave any feedback to you about your trading stations? Have you made any changes based on their feedback?

U mean returning customers? Yes, I did. And that was the most satisfactory part of that test. People were asking for restocking certain products, or giving me the info what is missing at the moment. And I did adjusted prices of few products based on their feedback. After few days of running the market i noticed that when a new player was asking on chat where to find lithium or plastic, sometimes he got answered like: market, coords, cheap. So, the info was spreading around on itself. And in some way I got respected (I am not boasting myself here now, just giving my expressions). Funny moments: One called me "the king of trade" and one hand love to me 

- Would you change anything in the current trading system?

Partially this question is already answered above. Little more storage slots. Little more display slots. More paying options - not only goods for coins, but also goods for goods. Maybe a dedicated landclaim that will make TS area PVE (but still with raiding option). I didn't liked the fact, that when two TS were buildednext to each other, u could freely move between them. That knowledge "costed" me two trading stations. To make them unaccesible from behind to the third party, u need to separate them with wall. And of course statistics.

In one of the future versions we are also going to introduce detailed statistics to make keeping track of your sales easier. Do you have any requests for this or additional features?

Well, I have a master degree in economics and work all my life in trading, so.... some basic statistics could be very helpful. Now i used my memory and a sheet of paper for that. And had no competition - did not have to worry about their prices and stock. More sophisticated solutions will mostly depend on how trading will develop in the future. Options are limitless.

... or I would even call this Advanced Logistics Solutions

Well, I must admit that endgame play for me means mostly ...running across the entire map. And very often with inventory full of more/less precious items.

And it is not a funny feeling when u have to run a whole map with 5k coins onboard. It is more like looking for a "golden killing shot" winner 

So, community, lets think of any good ideas how to solve it

[DON'T BE GREEDY]

Maybe I should wait with this post until wipe, but I already wrote it on discord, so why not here too....

I have been testing trading possibilities and abilities for about two weeks on US server. And my conclusion is: it is possible, it is doable, it is profitable.
But under one condition: DON'T BE GREEDY

Set fair prices (u earn, but not tons of coins on one crapy item), allow other players to earn money (trading stations have buying option - use it). But again - DON'T BE CHEAP.

Forget about SHINY coins. No one will have them. And penny coins drop from rad towns.

Reinvest your income - I put about 30% of my daily income back into machines to buy resources (and adjust prices when needed). Simple, raw, easy to get resources - wood, fibre, pyrite. And more demanding - sulfur, natural rubber. Exclusive ones - mechanical parts, rubber, precious stones. It doesn't mean i always buy all I want - but at least i call my demand.

And finally - have a huge variety of products to buy/sell. I sold almost everything (except bombs and food). Lithium, plastic, stone, iron, steel, copper, bandage, cigars, vodka, cement, electronic components, all kinds of armour, all kinds of weapons and ammo. Medicine, medicine chemicals, chemicals, solvent. Even products on demand for certain customers/players. Sometimes with negotiable prices.
For all of that I am using 14 trading stations - 6 with buying mode and 8 with selling mode.

Results? When properly restocked, daily income was like 4k coins. Average - 2,5 to 3 k coins. Maximum daily - almost 6k coins.

I assume that my total trading income up to day is like 40-45k penny coins. I have reinvested about 30% of that sum - that means about 12-15 k coins in circulation.
Total profit: +30k penny coins and lots of raw resources (which i spent on making items to restock the markets). I still have to mine, chop and gather some resources, craft semiproducts and do plenty other things, but it is worth of it! My ingame time is now priced

All above brings me to another issue....to be found in separate topic

These trading machines can't be destroyed unless the "Land Claim" is destroyed, right?

Unfortuantelly it doesn't work like that. TS has its own structure points and yet can be destroyed. The only positive feedback is that all inside will be destroyed too... so agresor will get nothing. That is why most players use their TS not for trading, but for storaging the most preciuos and valuable goods in it (like bombs, ammo, weapon).

Money in this game so far mean nothing. Barter is the only reasonable trading system.

[Ultimate Weapon of Peace]

Ultimate Weapon of Peace

Every time I play cryofall, there is always a player/team of players that are so annoying by its behaviour, that you just want to wipe them out of the game. And by annoying I mean very hostile, doing lots of PK, and spaming on chat, being rude, vulgar behaviour.
That is why, together with my cryofall friend and team member, INDIGNOPLAY, we came to an idea of Ultimate Weapon of Peace. A bomb like atomic one.

Here is how we see it.

Technology: t4 or higher, at least 250 LP to unlock each stage.
Recipe: 100 modern bombs, 1000 toxic potions, 1000 steel, 500 canisters of gasoline
Range. 100X100 squares
Damage: Equal to 100 modern bombs damage. Droping 2% every square away from detonation point.

Additional effects:

Toxic mist/fog, doing toxic damage accordingly to range as bomb damage. The fog will stay over wasteland, dropping 1% every 6 hours, until it vanishes. This time should be no less than 120 hours. Additionally, since it is very acid, it will accelerate degradation of all worn weapons, items, armor when in range.
Wasteland ΓÇô respawn of resources should be stopped in range until toxic mist vanishes.
Bomb Silo: a structure to be build where bomb needs to be kept. When builded and equiped, it will be shown on the map with special sign (like Trading Station does). Cost of bomb silo: 500 steel, 500 plastic, 500 mechanical components, 500 high tech components, 2000 cement. Area 10x10 squares.
Highly hazardous: bomb needs to be kept in bomb silo. It will detonate automatically after 15 mins being outside silo. When set on detonation square, countdown time will be 60 secs.
Missile Launcher: structure to launch bomb automatically targeted on manually given coordinates.
Cost: 2000 steel, 500 plastic, 500 mechanical parts, 500 high tech components, 500 electronic components.
Activation Card/Key: item. Will activate Missile Launcher control panel when in users inventory. Destroyed after use. To be dropped in Radtowns, veeeeeery rare.

Purpose
the same like atomic arsenals of USA and USSR during Cold War. To make ΓÇ₧bad boysΓÇ¥ calm down, otherwise their base will dissapear with no coming back to it within a week. It should act like prevention, not being used actually (that is why it should be exteremely expensive to craft and hold).

Some ideas of different sort:

more decorative structures - armor rack, bench, bulletproof windows, fountain, electric wires with lightbulbs, electric power generator

It would be great to have an option to harvest and plant seeds of water berries and glowing mushrooms. Can be done by some high tier farming/chemistry technology. I already imagine a base made in late 70's disco - funk style, with blue and pink glowing walls.

Picking sand and clay by pickaxe is not a best solution in real life. A SHOVEL does this job much better. So it should do in the game.

Land mines and cautionary signs as passive base defence to be set in area of landclaimer

A game should have an end game purpose/danger - like alien/rad mutated monsters swarm that will destroy all life on it. Survivors main mission would be to prepare for that danger and beat it. Raiding/scouting randomly groups of agressive rad monsters should be included. The later the gameplay, the more agressive/ the bigger the groups.

Baloons/Airships with stations/docks for traveling between locations.

More mellee weapons/armor options - maybe samurai style?

edit: Does trading station have a built in refrigerator? Because food spoils quite fast in it.

More to come if you want to. Cheers 

And here comes my view:
...

I agree with all what was written. Excellent ideas.

[CryoFall]

First of all, it's neither CryofAll, nor Cry of all, it's CryoFall, from Cryostasis and Fall

I know, just messing with You guys. Sorry for that.

And about PVP. This is a natural part of the game. We do not want to prevent people from engaging in combat and raiding. Otherwise we would have introduced hard limits which would have made it impossible.

But I don't ask You to make it impossible or prevent players from engaging in combat. All I ask for is to make a player calculate a pros and cons before pulling the trigger.

Baloons, airships (with steampunk look)? No rotation required. 

[PK is bad and will be ALWAYS punished]

I allow myself to insert this post by Devs here to keep the discussion tidy and clear to follow by the readers.

So, first about PVP, marking of PK, consequences, etc. It may seem like a trivial task, but in reality it is something that cannot really be solved
Please read this article: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKoster/20180627/320893/A_brief_history_of_murder_in_Ultima_Online.php
It will give a good overview of why this is much more complex thing than it appears initially.

And now let me comment your reply.

I dont know the UO game. Never played it. But as described in linked article, the game mechanics of UO and CryofAll are quite different. And in my opinion, a logic mistake was born just in the deepest core of the judgmenet/punishment system introduced in UO.

First of all, there are many more "illegal" actions to make (like stealing from players, robbing NPC's, etc). Including PK (player killing). So, logically there should be a more complexed system of prevention (Laws).  In my opinion their problem was in that they left the "justice" in the hands of players, supported by imperfect notification, but yet, it was players who did the justice.
So, killing neutral (innocent) player was a bad thing, but killing a criminal was a good thing (sure, in the name of justice). In some way the game allowed you to do PK with no conseqeunces. Or obbey the rules where possible.

In CryofAll you cannot steal anything from other player's inventory unless you kill him. No other way. So, there is only one crime - murder. And it should be punished, but not by the people (gamers) based on their judgement. This judgement should be done by the game itself. And so does my proposal. You introduce one basic rule - PK is bad and will be ALWAYS punished. Period. Rest is the in game system. No people involved.
If you think my proposal over, u will notice that what i suggest will affect the player till the end of his game. Even friendly kill will not erase his "mental disorders" - like lifesentence. Of course the X counter will be unknown for player, so there will be no calculating (I still can execute one T2 player before my madness turns on). Lottery. You do bad things, you get bad things.

Breaking a base is not a crime in my opinion. Because player has an opportunity and means (stone walls, iron doors, etc) to prepare and protect his "safe house". It is his choice and his time management strategy what to do first in the game. And how much risk to take.

But killing other players just like that? NO!

With all the respect to CryofAll team - I just don't accept an argument "there will be no punishment for PK in our game because it never worked in other games". Try harder guys, it can be done! It is your game, your engine and your rules. In game rules.

[Punishment]

This is quite a lot, thank you!

I think it would have been better to create each suggestion in a separate topic, so we can focus on each specifically, but oh, well

You name it, you have it:

Punishment - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1075.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1075.new#new)

Loot - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1076.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1076.new#new)

Combat - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1077.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1077.new#new)

Run/flee option - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1078.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1078.new#new)

Teamwork - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1079.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1079.new#new)

Trading - http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1080.new#new (http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=1080.new#new)

Please leave your comments and thoughts in dedicated topics.

Will preciate it a lot.