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I agree that instant raiding is about the worst thing one could come up with.

But there should be raiding tools at all tiers, just with according efficiency.

As a rule of thumb, it'd be a good idea to have an attacker spend about as much time (or effort) per wall as a defender needed to build a moderately sized wall of that type.

Now that I think of it, shooting over walls might be a problem with how things currently work, or not?

Also, how about the targeting? Isn't it required to "aim" at the ground tile something is on? that'd make this a little complicated, especially when a turret is behind a wall and thereby mostly hidden through it, so you had to visually aim at a part of the wall to technically aim at the base tile of the turret...
Is that going to work out? I mean, it shouldn't be too hard to make a client side check and redirect all clicks on a model to the corresponding base tile, right?

As requested

I'd imagine it like this:
- turrets come on a tall platform, so it is clear they can work (= shoot) over walls and also be attacked over walls, too
- obviously, you'd need 2 tiles space in between walls to be able to reach turrets (of a 1 by 1 tile footprint), or an unreasonably larger amount of doors for little added value (there would be a hole where the turret was, when it's destroy, which is required to advance into your base)
- idea: make turrets require 2 by 2 tiles due to their base/tower they stand on, so you effectively need 3 tiles space in between walls => problem solved, mostly
- turrets would need to be attacked from a distance, with firearms, requiring both time (healing) and material (guns, ammo, more ammo, armor) to disable, whereas the material required to disable/destroy it should be at least notably larger than the materials needed to build and maintain (ammo) the turret
- turret range has to be a tiny bit larger than any other firearms to prevent exploiting, you are supposed to take the hits if you want to get in!
- turrets need a bit of free space for targetting stuff (or any other viable explanation) so you can not build another turret within x tiles of another (this distance would be a main value for balancing turrets, and a means to prevent turret spamming)
- as a means to prevent people from simply ignoring turrets and bombing the wall in front of them (and then the turret), they should have spread, which gives them a sort of AE-dmg on long distance (and lower dps), but much higher dps (and less/no AE) on short range, with the simple intention to make it a bad idea to get close to a turret, and instead requiring you to fight it from a distance, a few shots at a time, depnding on the turret and your gear ofc, note that getting closer would usually mean to also get into range of more than 1 turret at once, which further helps to counter this problem, this might need some testing

(the "2 and 3 tiles space in between walls to reach turrets" is meant as a necessity to reach them to refuel and repair)

2. In the current state, raiding is not cost-effective

Why does everyone expect raiding to be a huge gain?!

You can get a huge gain if you find a poorly defended base with a huge hoarder inside, which isn't that rare I heard... except chests, but that's w.i.p. I guess.

IF you would always make a plus from raiding other people, or even in most cases, just think for a moment what would happen,
now tell me again if it should be cost efficient or not!


...as for the "why raid" question, my "vision" would be one were noobs are simply of no interest to raiding, which might be the case already,
- you'd want to raid to fight for resource nodes (which is going to be nullified with the coming changes due to how it will be totally pointless to invest huge resources to raid a place that holds a resource node that will just vanish shortly, to respawn elsewhere)
- you'd definitely want to raid (hostile) groups that are a threat to you, or could be, to throw them back on the progression ladder, and gain an advantage for future encounters,
this is probably the most compelling reason to raid, and will likely be the sole true purpose for quite a while to come
- you might want to raid for the sake of griefing other players, people do that, and if your group dominates a server and you have plenty of resources, there is little else to do, so ...

I'd like to point out a few more issues, that I have mentioned before, but well, I'll do anyways:
- as of now, there are NO raiding mechanics in place, looking at other games, be it EVE or Salem or many other games, there are a lot of places to "get some inspiration" in that matter...
- due to no raiding mechanics, raiding someone / some group who is offline is beyond simple, which means you need to have a group that covers all time zones to be able to defend, which would require a much larger player base and MUCH larger servers, which does not align with the visions of server size that the devs mentioned so far, this is a critical contradiction and needs to be dealt with (!)
- more crafting, higher lvl pve content requirering higher tech, and vast areas with mid lvl content that just require mid lvl crafting products to do, would be one idea to use as a base for a player driven economy, which could be a basis to generate demand for certain resources available only/mostly through fixed resource nodes, which then could be a basis for meaningful pvp and raiding, this all is a rather complex field, but vastly misaligns with the devs current "vision" of the game, because it would also require much larger servers both in space and player count, whereas fixed resource nodes to fight over would be the thing to do, and the "decaying nodes" that the devs currently envision would make raiding mostly useless,
yes there are problems with fixed nodes in the current game, which come again due to the tiny size of both the map and the player base

To sum it up, this game has the potential to be pretty nice in PvE terms,
but to make a leap into meaningful PvP, there'd need to be a huge change in the direction the devs are currently going,
and by how they envision it, I start to doubt that this is even possible.

- From what the devs wrote, and I am hoping its final, the map will not get much bigger. They will add one or several biomes, but thats it.
- Right now, scouting is a thing. I had to do it, and I got important information that I used later (Trading, Industry, Raid).
- We are not talking about UNLIMITED teleportation, its will probably be a high-tech building and limited like land claims.

Actually something like a mount or a bike would solve the walking problem better.

I heard they are not intending to expand the map much, but I hope they'll rethink that someday,
as is, the map is maybe good for 40-50 people at most, so even if you had just 250 people on one server, you'd need about 10 times the map size to make it playable.

"Why would you" was an actual question, and you found an use case:

Teleport to other base, gather, grab ressources and walk back.  I did not think of that.
Downside: Still a lot of walking.
Might depend on how much the device costs.

Why is it bad for pvp?

Well, assuming a bigger map and more players, a few things would be different:
- scouting would be a thing, it would be harder to find and know relevant bases of possible enemies or possible valuable raid targets
- due to distance, any group could only reach so far, as walking costs time, and attacking anything "far away" would need to have a good reason to do so, sacrificing time for travelling and leaving the own base undefended in that time, or splitting the group for prolonged periods to act at different spots at once.

This concept is known as "power projection" which means that a group that is stronger than their neighbours can still only reach over a certain distance without stretching their power too thin to stay competitive.

Unrestricted teleporting, actually, pretty much any form of teleporting, would bypass this limitation and increase the range in that any one group can operate, up to the point where it can reach the whole map again with little effort.
Which nullifies the benefits of a bigger map.
Note: this mainly applies to pvp or "mainly pvp" servers, and is not as much of an issue on a "pve only" or "mostly pve" servers, though there are not yet such distinctions, at least that I know of.

Not playing that game here bro.

Thats my concern at the moment. Why would you?

So you do not "play" a "game" here?
Then what is that?!

I see that you disagree with "teleporting naked" because YOU see no use case, and assume there is none, and that everyone should agree with you as your opinion is the only one valid truth here.

Yet, you provide no reasoning at all, why you do not like that restriction, or why it would be bad.

See?


Coming back to EVE-comparisons, there, you can not move anything by "magic" or teleportation, yet, the universe is MUCH bigger, and it takes hours to get from one end to another, even if you would be friendly with all the different groups and people you'd encounter on the way... ^^
Yea I'll try to keep it short.
In EVE, you can also only teleport your character, not your ship, not the implants in your clone body, not the contents of your cargo bay, nothing.
Yet, it is tremendously useful.

A use case, to give you just one:
You have a main base and satellite bases in different corners of the world for the different resources that are there, like, one near the tripple clay, one in the south for rubber, one in the north for oil berries,... just as a purely hypothetical example.
It would be a nice thing to be able to teleport around and do a bit of gather here and there, saving a lot of time walking.
You would also save time while hauling the resources from there, as you'd only need to walk the way once instead of twice (only back to your main base, instead of there and back).

But even a this much restricted teleporting ability would be something I'd object for the reason of being bad for PvP, but ofc totally viable on a PvE server.

Now, do you have actual arguments or reasoning, or is stating your opinion all you can do?   

You misunderstood. This is why in your opinion teleporting should be naked.

But why should a player ever use teleporting if you can only do it naked? No use case. Teleportation would be useless.

I don't think you understand how this forum thing works really.

You state your opinion, and I do the same, maybe others join in.
Yes if I write something here, its my personal view of the matter. Why would I write anything else?

To be frank, if you have reasons why you think that suggestions would be bad for the game etc. I am interested. But please keep you moralising, narrow-minded bullshit out of the discussion.

So I see, you present more of your opinion still without any facts or even any reasoning behind it, yet demand more of that from me whereas I already explained a few things.
...oh, and insulting me will surely make you look more mature and credible, right?

Saying "you are wrong" or "you do not understand" without anything to back that up, without anything at all, is very bad trolling at best.



So, are you only here for trolling, or do you actually have any reasoning to base your opinion on?

Why would you want to teleport naked?

1.) to prevent abuse, there are quite a lot of bad things you can do with that...
2.) to make it not mandatory

I may add, having teleport buildings can be a bad thing for PvE oriented players, too, as it gives PvP players a simple location to intercept.
Another reason why I'd recommend these for PvE only servers.

but I'd like you to rather think of a possible solution to problem 2 than objecting to an all-important feature.
...
- Current state + some kind of fast(er) travel. Optimal solution, because you have to scout and walk somewhere first and build the device.

No, neither is it an "all-important feature", neither do you have an "optimal solution"...

First off, what you experience as good or bad does not apply to everyone,
simply assuming you have the one and only valid view on things is quite an arrogant approach.

Yes, there are PvE players like you who would just want to gather resources quick, keep walking to a minimum and not risk too much on long journeys,
and there will be PvE servers for those players, and yes, teleporting might be a good thing there.

For most other players,  shortening the distance by artificial means like teleport would seriously break the game in a variety of ways,
so don't just generalize these things and don't try to force your view onto others without  even differentiating.

That all sounds nice for sure,
but I'd highly object one thing: teleportation

IF there would be a bigger map and more players,
up to a point where scouting the map would be a thing, and you would not instantly know where everyones bases are...

Things like more speed or teleportation counter that, which sounds convenient, yes, but tends to break what a bigger map offers.

There is a concept called "power projection" which means that a group which is by combination of numbers, play time and skill, the "best",
can not just wipe out the whole map (which is trivial in the current game for any such group),
Simply due to the small detail that distance hinders you, and you can not be everywhere at once.

Therefore I'd say teleportation and vehicles or other speed enhancements are a bad thing for anything but a short lived "melee" server.
(*melee meaning "all vs all" and all out pvp)

Instead of increasing number of free slots with every tier, how about decreasing them instead?

How about not changing them?

Have "x" slots in total sum, over all of your claims, do not change them with tier,
so you put "x" items into one claim, you can put zero into another.

Though I'd say it would be reasonable to increase that number with tier unlocks.

BIG LOL @ the OP and his document, I just took a look...

"raiding someone does not return itself in resources spent, so what is the point in it"
Someone definitely not understands the general implications of raiding... and math... if you'd make a plus in most cases by the calculation of mats spent vs mats looted,
then there would be no point in not doing it, and looting every single base every few days.

B...b...b...but why else would I raid then?!?

First off, this is an alpha and there are no actual raid mechanics yet, and many many things have to be implemented yet and then balanced.
Focusing on balancing things before anything is implemented makes no sense btw, and if you even start to change vital things because of balancing to mitigate not-yet-implemented things, you'll end up ruining everything.
Well, main reasons for raiding someone:
- "RP-ing" that you are a "bad guy",
- personally not liking someone,
- cutting down the competition (I'd say this is the main reason right now, with the most return value, just not in an instant gratification way you would like to see it)
- gaining a certain type of mats/items, like, raiding a base that you suspect has a lot of what you currently need
- ...


As to the rest of the "document":
- written in a "I know what ALL the players think" attitude
- nothing substantial except the long known issues around lith/oil and some other, minor, again well known things
- HILLARIOUS "solutions" for various problems
- not even a slight idea of the various weapons, yet another "flint lock" guy -.-
- lots of micro tuning stuff that has not even been properly implemented yet (see above paragraph for why that is bad)

=> Dear devs, if you actually consider these ..."solutions" good, I seriously fear for the future of this game.

That's a convenience feature. Probably we should improve that switching to another item will instantly cancel the reloading. This way we have both a convenience of auto-reloading with the ability to quickly switch to another weapon.

That's not necessarily a good feature, imagine someone with 10 double barrel shotguns in their hotbar and some possibly even mod-assisted firing,
or 10 muskets...

"punishment" for raiders is one simple thing that actually works (in other games),
meaning, if you "die" (you're not actually dead, you know, this is no permadeath game)... well if you "die" on someone else's claim, there are a variety of things that could be used as punishment, and as I said, that's just one way to make it work.

Because as it is now, there is no threat in "dying" itself and you could just put up a makeshift base near the one you want to raid, make bedrolls and go for it indefinitely without any consequence.
That's not stupid in your book, right?