Making charcoal with coal as fuel doesn't produce any ash

[Rain_Phoenix]

After explaining my idea/suggestion to the moderator in the ideas-suggestions Discord it was clear that she didn't get what I was talking about, and proceeded to ignore my point to irrelevantly talk about how reality needs to take a back seat to game design and that's why we don't have to go the restroom or why our character doesn't get tired after 8 hours.

When you burn wood to make charcoal, it shouldn't matter what you use as a fuel. If anything, burning wood to make charcoal using coal as a fuel should give you more ash than just using twigs. I can understand that you want newer players to use twigs, but when ash is an essential component, and glass needs to be made, from a gameplay perspective it makes no sense that the player cannot choose to use coal as a primary fuel source and is punished by making charcoal using coal.

Since the Ash tooltip says "Ash left by burning wood.", I thought I could use coal as a fuel and burn a heap of logs, make charcoal, get ash and continue to produce glass, bottles of chemicals and various other things such as ammo.

It's unnecessary and unfair on the player that you would railroad them into using twigs as a fuel source when coal is FAR better and more convenient to use. Especially since I can't just burn a heap of logs and make ash directly, I am left with no choice but to arbitrarily chop down trees and forage for twigs when I wouldn't otherwise. Breaks my workflow, and makes me do something "just because" when it should in fact reward me for being more efficient with my time.

[ai_enabled]

Hello!

I've seen your message on the #ideas channel.
As usual, all the ideas there will be carefully considered by our game designer (@Lurler).

Please note that I (the programmer of CryoFall) and our community moderators are providing only personal opinions in Discord regarding the game design and related ideas. The final word on the game design is always up to the game designer @Lurler.

Regards!

[Avakyn]

After explaining my idea/suggestion to the moderator in the ideas-suggestions Discord it was clear that she didn't get what I was talking about, and proceeded to ignore my point to irrelevantly talk about how reality needs to take a back seat to game design and that's why we don't have to go the restroom or why our character doesn't get tired after 8 hours.

Hello,

Just to be clear, I completely understood what you were saying, and I was offering you a solution to your ash shortage that fits within the current rules in the game, or the code as it is written. As ai_enabled pointed out, he and us moderators share our thoughts on the topic, and when we can, provide a solution in the meantime. Lurler always looks through the suggestions and ideas people provide and considers them for the game. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

You responded by expressing that the current process didn't make sense, as ash would be produced by burning wood. This is a reasonable expectation based on what we see in reality, and I've had conversations with Lurler in the past regarding discrepancies in the game vs what I would expect in reality much like you were expressing in the #ideas-suggestion channel. His answer was something along the lines of: What is realistic isn't always fun, and isn't always best for game design.

So I gave examples of this in my additional response, regarding lack of waste removal from the character and needing to remain offline for 8 hours to ensure your character has enough "rest". Obviously those elements wouldn't be fun, so they're not included. Are they related to wood and charcoal? No, but they are an easy to understand example of when reality conflicts with game design to illustrate a point.

I felt it would be more useful to you to provide you with a solution that will assist in your ash production than get into the chemistry of the process and how it works in real life, but sure, the forums are a good place to provide a more in-depth explanation than the #ideas-suggestions channel on the discord. Plus Lurler is usually designing many of the systems of crafting and processing materials in the game on real-life methods, then tunes them to fit the game.

For example, the process of making charcoal in real life is called Pyrolysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis) involves controlling the oxygen present while burning wood to prevent combustion. Combustion is bad for creating charcoal, as carbon(what charcoal is made of) is burned away, reducing its concentration and leaving behind ash instead.

Most of the ash is locked up inside the structure of the charcoal, and getting it out would result in destroying the charcoal which is actually a suggestion I made at one point to make more ash, but Lurler decided to go with OniFlower instead. So, in this case, the process in the game for making charcoal is actually based on reality. At most, it would produce a small amount of ash, which I would guess is why the charcoal recipe doesn't produce ash since it would be minimal and annoying taking up a spot in the output where a stack of charcoal could go instead.

[Lurler]

Thank you everyone for your detailed opinions on the matter.

But I do honestly believe there is no problem with the balance here. Only that it might not be immediately clear that you need to use twigs to get more ash.

My reply in discord regarding this matter was:

Guys, okay, let me explain something.
In reality when you make charcoal you DONT burn logs. You heat them to convert chemicals aside from carbon into gas which is released and you left with charcoal (carbon). There is no ash produced at all, because you don't burn logs.
Sure, the game might not be super realistic but that's the idea we follow.
Now, regarding ash - if you use twigs as suggested above - you will have more ash than you can ever able to use. I'm being serious here. Just collect twigs when you are out and use them to power your furnaces, cook food, etc. etc. and in literally an hour of doing that you will have hundreds of ash.
I'm sorry if this reply is not what you expect. But there is honestly no shortage of ash, you just have to approach this correctly (by using twigs) and you will have as much ash as you need.

I hope this more or less answers the question.

We will try to communicate it some way that using twigs is great for ash.

[Alibaba]

I really donΓÇÖt understand what the problem is with ashes. This resource accumulates most quickly before the invention of electric furnaces. I have a few boxes lying dead weight. I can give it to anyone.

Don't distract developers from more important things! 

[noltendo]

It seems someone has already answered this, but as someone who has put in 200 plus hours. You get a fair amount of charcoal in the way the game is designed in the beginning of the game. The beginning of the game is a crawl, but it can be done. Once you get where I'm at in the game. If you're in PVE. A lot of things are easy to obtain. Ash as well. Increase what you need to make ash and you'll be fine. In later game like someone has said you just need to plant that flower, plop a bunch of electric stoves down. Then the flower grows very fast. You can then have all you want, or consider trading with others for ash, or buying from a vend. If there's no vend avail. Ask a higher up player to set someone in the vend, or to give you some. I guess you're trying to provide ideas here. Seeing as where we are in the forums, but honestly it's fine as it is imo.  Though I hope these suggestions help in PVE at least. I have not touch PVP.