Author Topic: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert  (Read 695 times)

Ultum

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Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« on: May 08, 2020, 02:17:14 pm »
Hello,

There does not appear to be any way to quickly harvest the prag scraps that fall after taking out the Prag spire, and I've noticed people can come along and mine prag that is laying there before you get a chance to clean it all up. 

Today on the American PVE server, someone cleaned up half the small mining nodes after I did all the work to clear the area, kill the beetles and also blow up the spire (I did not die and was mining the remains while they came along to take).

This is also after I rode around most of the desert looking for a node.  Kind of frustrating and there does not seem to be anything you can do about it, other than ask them not too (powerless request) and then let the whole server know who they are after, if they don't listen.

Was curious if there are any plans on how to help protect players getting this rare, hard to find resource.

ai_enabled

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2020, 02:51:38 pm »
Hello!

Yes, this happens sometimes due to the open world nature of the game. In PvP you can just use your gun to make justice :) but no such option in PvE.

We have a similar problem with the boss loot as spectator players could just rush in and grab it.

I'm not sure what we could do to prevent it. There is an idea with tagging the object to make it temporary yours—so only you and your party could access it, and other players will see a message that this object is temporarily reserved for you. What do you think about it? Maybe you have other suggestions or ideas?

Regards!

Ultum

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2020, 04:23:18 pm »
Thanks again for all your responses..!

In thinking of some other games, a few options might be below, but I agree this is a tricky one to figure out in terms of how to balance the "open world" feel, while at the same time, ensuring consequences, retribution or prevention occur.

1) You become flagged PVP if you did no damage and loot someone's Prag nodes from queen or Prag spire
2) Build a rep system based on behavior (could be a bit time consuming and bothersome to develop)
3) One large remains from the queen and Prag spire that only the people who "cracked" it or "killed" it can open, rather than harvest-able nodes scattered in the game world, built on a timer system, if no one loots after a certain amount of time, the remains are open to the general public
4) Inability to trade or use chat for an extended period of time for any above offense if still allowed (consequences)

If I can think of anything else, I'm happy to add later.  A rep system that also tied back to trading, etc. would be interesting but again, might be a large effort.

Khaos

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2020, 04:24:37 pm »
This is the reason I ended up making my own server. I was tired of doing the heavy lifting so to speak to have inconsiderate players "steal" from you. This is also as a lower level player I would clear critters out of a ruin, and while waiting for my health to restore a little someone comes up and clears the loot easily since the critters are taken care of  already. I am not sure if I have any real solution as there will always be players who will take advantage of a situation. Just adding that there is more than one person who notices it and gets a little frustrated.

Ultum

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2020, 06:07:56 pm »
Thanks for chiming in Khaos, I didn't even think of clearing the rad towns and having someone snatch your loot.

There is one other direction, but I'm not sure how it would be executed and that is the old Asheron's Call Lugian Citadel formula.  Where instead of it being one or two enemies/resources, it's a flood of enemies and resources that a bunch of players need to participate in, and loot drops to the ground all day long.

These were some of my fondest memories of playing that game, but I don't know how that would play out over ground (these were a contained dungeon crawl).

Convi

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2020, 01:53:25 pm »
I'm not sure what we could do to prevent it. There is an idea with tagging the object to make it temporary yours—so only you and your party could access it, and other players will see a message that this object is temporarily reserved for you. What do you think about it? Maybe you have other suggestions or ideas?

Regards!

This seems like a decent idea. 5 minutes should be enough

ai_enabled

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2020, 07:27:03 pm »
We've decided to go with the tagging idea in PvE for A27 Update.
The idea is to apply the tag to the whole pragmium cluster (big and small pragmium nodes + beetles) when you damage any of the objects in the cluster.
So you and your team can find pragmium, shot a beetle (the whole cluster will be tagged for you and your party), and mine everything (including the new crystals after the explosion) without other players interfering—they will see a lock icon over the objects they cannot interact. The lock is temporary so it will expire if you go away.

We will use it to mark creatures loot as well (so if you've attacked a creature only you and your party members can grab its loot).

We will use it for boss loot as well. It will require implement ranking so only top-10 players will get the reward according to their damage dealt to the boss, and players that were just spectators cannot get any loot as they didn't participate meaningfully in the battle.

I can imagine this idea might also work well for the ruins/radtowns in the future updates. I mean tagging the whole radtown (with each creature and loot crate) for the player entering it. So if you have worked your way in you can grab the loot from the crates without worrying that someone might use the opportunity to take it right before you.

If you have any ideas or suggestions please let us know.

Regards!

Ultum

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2020, 07:32:48 am »
Thanks ai_enabled, this sounds great.  I may have gone a little overboard on concepts, but I'd had a bit more coffee than usual that day.

 :)

Salvick

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 09:50:49 pm »
Hello guys, I've been reading this thread and wanted to weight in with something I thought of.

The tag idea sounds like is gonna work very well but the first question that came to my mind was: Could someone "tag" stuff while letting the other players finish the job and then take some of the loot? Does the tagging method prioritize amount of damage done by each player or something like that?

Then I had another though of how some games works in regards of shared loot when it is a cooperative game and the solution usually is to let every player get the loot independently of the others. Like in Borderlandsm Dying Light and such games where everyone gets something from a crate as it is available for each player disregarding if someone else took the loot from it.

I see the problem being the respawn timers that could unsync making a crate visible for some players and not visible for some others but I'm not sure if that's a significant problem.

ai_enabled

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2020, 11:26:04 am »
@Salvick

Quote
Could someone "tag" stuff while letting the other players finish the job and then take some of the loot?
Each member of the party will have access to the tagged object.

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Does the tagging method prioritize amount of damage done by each player or something like that?
The loot lock will apply immediately as soon as possible. E.g. you attacked a boar—it will be tagged for you and your party, so when you kill it you can gather the loot.
In the case of the boss loot, I've described in my previous message how exactly it will work.

Quote
Then I had another though of how some games works in regards of shared loot when it is a cooperative game and the solution usually is to let every player get the loot independently of the others. Like in Borderlandsm Dying Light and such games where everyone gets something from a crate as it is available for each player disregarding if someone else took the loot from it.
If we're talking about something like a radtown loot, then the more players in a group, the more resources this group could obtain—without actually putting a harder challenge. This way larger teams get a much easier game.

The tagging system should work fine and it's pretty common in some MMO games where there are big groups as well as solo players.

Regards!

ai_enabled

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 05:58:10 pm »
Here is the WIP I want to share with you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/707979494123634820/726207130004357280/Screenshot_at_02-44-26.png
The tooltip part will appear only when hovering the mouse cursor over the lock icon.
The lock icon and tooltip will be displayed only over objects in PvE that you don't have access to (so objects marked for you will appear the same way they currently appear to you, without any locks).

Please let us know what you think. This feature is coming up in A27 with the experimental version available by end of June.

Regards!

JohannDoeler

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2020, 04:04:32 pm »
Thanks a lot :-) This is a huge improvement in the game :-)

I have more than 300 hours in A26, waiting for A27 being applied.

One suggestion : if it is unavoidable the reset of the server, I would like that my experience points be preserved on PVE. It was a lot of time playing and gathering resources ...

On the other hand, IMHO, it is very decptive to make a robot and discover that the fuel made of Pragmium cannot be refueled with energy, only with pragmium ... If you have developed your base far from the desert, what you gather is lost to refuel the robot.

BTW, metor fall: just to get powder and gold ? Waiting for A27 and discover the utility ...

A great game !!! Great job !!!


Have a nice week and my best regards :-)

ai_enabled

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Re: Gathering Prag from a PVE server in the Desert
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2020, 02:12:41 am »
@JohannDoeler, thank you for your feedback!

Quote
I would like that my experience points be preserved on PVE. It was a lot of time playing and gathering resources
Currently, this is not possible as we're completely changing the data format.
However, please rest assured that A27 is completely reworked regarding the progression speed and grind. By the time you will gather resources to build something, it's likely that you will also have enough learning points.

Quote
the fuel made of Pragmium cannot be refueled with energy, only with pragmium
A27 introduced new gasoline fuel cells so you have a choice—a more long-lasting pragmium fuel cells or cheap gasoline fuel cells.

Regarding the meteorites—the gold is essential for some recipes and the meteorite event is currently the easiest way (when you're around) to obtain some.

Regards!