System map and Minimap + radar

[kyokei]

So having dived again deeply into this game I found out that the map and minimap are usefull/useless.
This game being an exploration/survival/sandbox game - I feel like the map is a bit of a cheat and the minimap a bit useless.
Let me explain:

System map:
- You get to see all the asteroids, enemies, yellow chests, etc...
- I think the game would be more fun if you would fly into a zone which has the "fog of war". You have no idea what is out there, no idea where the asteroids are. The only thing visible on the map is the friendly space station (if there is one) - as these are in communication with each other. This would also mean that the automatic pilot will not work for systems which have not been discovered.
At the space stations you could sell bits of maps which will discover parts of the systems. To make it even better you could have for example a system where there is a mining station, so the maps they would sell is from the station to the asteroids.
Doing the unexplored part gives the player a bigger sense of danger and could be something you can expand on with scanner devices etc.
The system map being active in systems with nebula's/interference is just silly You should turn it around. Make the system map interfered(unless explored) and make the radar work at 25-50%.

Minimap:
- Shows enemies, asteroids, debris.
- I don't often look at the minimap, I usually just press M as you can see much more there.
With the minimap you could add some functionality which would get added by your radar. Radars could scan the surroundings and could analyse asteroids in advance and show some info on the minimap - this ofcouse if you have Astrogeology.
Another thing which I would love to see is a sort of diablo minimap functionality. What I mean by this is that you could have a minimap in the middle of your screen - or make it bigger.
So for the Nebula zones, an idea is that the radar is the only thing that does the work. Working at for example 25-50% it will be the only thing that will be able to warn you when enemies are closing in on you, and even then they will already be close.

Radar:
I love how radars work, and you could expand on their usability. See points above.
I also would love to see that radar lock on to the closest target - if "R" is used to manually target than the radar will not auto target anymore until you are out of combat and go into your next fight.
I often see myself flying at a ship, spamming F... and if the ship fly's out of range then repeating the same action.

Just some ideas - what do you other players think of this? Devs, is this even easily possible?

[MenschMaschine]

[confused]
Please be more clear about the various thingies
I only know of the radar, the system-map where you see stations and asteroids and
where you can set names navigation points
and then there is the galaxy map.

Generally, if -all- your ideas are realized, it sounds good, but if only parts of them get realized,
it can get messy and unrealistic, as an example, why would anyone build a spacestation in
an unexplored location, if no one has any clue where is what at all times?
(that is a pro for only the player not having any maps and having to buy/find them or parts of them)

But, i still would find it weird, the stuff in the systems is not there since yesterday and in such an
advanced civilization, it would make sense that the jumpgate gives out updated maps to everyone who arrives right away.
Especially with the risk of pirates. (who could in specific cases (pirate den present in system)) could block those transmitted maps
from reaching new arrivals.

I like your ideas, kyokei, but they should be implemented with some common sense and a story-rooted background.

Edit: Crates have a <show_on_map>0</show_on_map> line.
I am guessing such could be added to any DATA section of any object to make it invisible on the map, just by modding.

[kyokei]

Yes I agree, it was a sort of train of thought and yes the system map + minimap changes I described do depend on each other other it doesn't make sense.
The radar change with auto-locking can be seen as a separate change.

What I tried to say with my initial post is adding mystery to the maps gives a bigger sense of adventure

[smokingmedic]

I completely agree. One of the biggest criticisms of the game is lack of content. After a short time, you do the same things over and over again. Not being able to see enemy movements would add a lot of surprise and difficulty. Making the management of radar and sensors more important adds depths to the game. It also conceas possible lack of content.

[MenschMaschine]

 

smokingmedic wrote: "It also conceas [sic] possible lack of content."

So basically, you have a fog of war and see nothing and if you explore the spot...nothing is revealed...

Or in words by the great Eric Idle
"I mean...
what have you got to lose?
You know, you come from nothing
- you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost?
Nothing."

However... if you do not see anything at first in a system, it would also not make much sense to see the danger-rating of a system.
Which indeed means the game would get much more difficult and you would die (and possibly lose all your stuff) much more often,
even at later levels. The explorative changes we are talking about should not change the game into a roguelike-like game.
Roguelikes usually do not include big customization features like buying hulls and equipment,
especially not a game like VE where it can take quite some effort to outfit a ship to make it work smoothly (which is a big fun part of the game)

A possible lack of content already could be countered with a more mixed level of pirateships
(they are pirates, -they- dont care about some rating for a system, they fly where they want, so occasionally,
you should find a level 20 pirate in a level 10 system)

Another way could be to measure the time since you last visited a system and based on that, move around the asteroids a bit.

kyokei, one problem with the radar and the system-map might be that the radar is only a cropped version of the system-map,
meaning that if you want to handle those two differently, you might have to re-program the whole mappingsystem.

[kyokei]

What the "fog of war" would add is having to hunt pirates/aliens instead of opening of the system map and cruising to the next pirate. It's having to fly around without knowing what could be lurking further ahead, having to explore instead of knowing where to go at all times.

I get what you say Mensch, so maybe instead of having to discover the map it is already discovered but there is the "fog of war" mechanic applied so that you don't know what could be lurking close to those asteroids.

And yes, I know that my thoughts do indeed require a re-design, but maybe bits and pieces can be taken as ideas and applied differently. This is the discussion I wanted to trigger.
As you can see we went from my ideas and shifted the idea around already. And then it's up to the devs to see what is possible or not.

[MenschMaschine]

Yup, that's what such brainstorming is about...mmmmh... storm...