Supermassive Capital Ships (My Wet Dream)

[Hecter94]

Hello again, everyone. This isn't going to be a well-written post juuuust yet as I haven't fully fleshed out my "idea" yet....really just a page full of notes that I've been jotting down as I was playing. But wouldn't it be extremely cool to have several supermassive capital ships that are very hard to get but just....epicly powerful? I think so, and so I've thought about what some of these ships might be like and what their stats might be.  Note: This is just a "for fun" idea and not something that could be added into the game.

Battleship(Heavy Bombardment Vehicle)

Nickname:     Devastator
Health:          Large structure, high armor
Speed:          Very slow but high maneuverability.
Design:         Similar to an Ironclad (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Uss_Cairo_h61568.jpg).
Weapons:     Four level 3 fixed ballistic mounts all facing to one side (~40 degrees)
-                    One level 2 energy mount facing forwards. (~120 degrees)
Special:         Ramming damage increased by 70% to target ship and decreased by 120% to player ship.
-                    Greatly increased max ammo count
-                    Slowly regenerates ammo and consumables (mass replicator)
-                    Every ballistic weapon mounted shoots double the projectile

Carrier (Landing platform and drone deployer)

Nickname:      Dethroner(might change this name)
Health:           Medium structure, decent armor
Speed            Decent speed, low maneuverability

Design:          Something similar to this (http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/fantasy/wallpapers/airborne-aircraft-carrier.jpg) (No real definitive ideas yet though)
Weapons:      Two level 1 forward mounted laser turrets (~30 degrees)
-                     One level 2 ballistic turret mounted near the rear, facing forward. (~160 degrees)
Special:         Carries smaller AI-controlled ships and many disposable drones.
-                     Uses small interceptor planes for self-defense while dispensing bombers to attack
-                     Uses small mining shuttles instead of mining lasers
-                   Can launch repair drones to fix allied ships, turrets and stations. (including itself)

Planet Cracker (Mining/factory ship)

Nickname:      Devourer
Health:           Very large structure, low armor
Speed:           Fast speed, decent maneuverability
Design:          Entire ship is built around one massive mining laser. (like the Battlecruiser's  (http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090708231024/starcraft/images/0/03/BattlecruiserMissile_SC2_DevRend1.jpg)Yamato cannon from Starcraft)
Weapons:     Mining laser must spend time charging before firing, every 5 seconds charging translates to 1 second of firing time.
-                     If charged for thirty seconds, beam will immediately discharge for a full 10 seconds.
-                     Mining laser will completely mine asteroids with 2-3 seconds of firing.
-                     Does massive damage on a successful hit, capable of destroying most smaller ships within 1-2 seconds.
-                     Two level 2 mines located near the rear
Special:          Massive cargo bay (~3,000)
-                    5-6 slots for mining lasers
-                    gains random amounts of ores for every ship killed with mining laser
-                    can use ores to repair the ship.

Superheavy Fighter(Fighter/Interceptor)

Nickname:       Dominator
Health             small structure, very high armor
Speed             decent speed, very high maneuverability
Weapons:       One level 3 energy mount facing forward (~60 degrees)
-                      two level 3 ballistic mounts near the rear, facing forward (~270 degrees)
-                     Two level 2 missile mounts, one on each side...facing forward. (~40 degrees)
Special:           Shots that hit the shield have a small chance (~20%) of being absorbed and replenishing ammo or energy
-                      Hull slowly regenerates as long as energy is available



Only one ship obtainable per game.
Requires completion of main campaign and secondary quest chain
Upon acquiring ship, new skill tab is unlocked...allowing you to spend skill points to unlock new features of your ship.
All ships would have a unique "docking animation" parking next to the station and sending a small shuttle to dock with the station.
Repairing the ships at a space station should either require a specific station (only 1-2 on the map), or not be possible at all.

Backstory: The federation invasion of the Alien homeworld was led by four generals, each one using one of these massive capital ships.
When it was clear that the battle could not be won, these four generals turned tail and ran....staying hidden in Void Expanse while waiting for comms from earth that never came.
In order to gain one of these ships for yourself, you must join one of the four generals and destroy the other three ships for him, at which point he will reward you with his ship.


annnd, that's about it for my ideas. If you think that sounds epic, feel free to comment...or share your own if you'd like.

[Hellwarlord]

annnd, that's about it for my ideas. If you think that sounds epic, feel free to comment...or share your own if you'd like.

I think that this is EPIС!
Downside is that we will have to wait until Developers will have some time to implement this nice idea with big ships(aka flying stations) and all required new mechanics for them.

Of course, some balance changes should be made, but your idea could be great addition to the game, especially in PvP servers with Zone Conquer systems/Station Capture, etc.

[Hecter94]

I think that this is EPIС!
Downside is that we will have to wait until Developers will have some time to implement this nice idea with big ships(aka flying stations) and all required new mechanics for them.

Of course, some balance changes should be made, but your idea could be great addition to the game, especially in PvP servers with Zone Conquer systems/Station Capture, etc.

Well, I could be wrong....but it seems far too big to ever actually be added to the game. -.-'
It's more of just a fun little "what if" I was thinking of.

Didn't put /that/ much thought into balance though, I mean...I tried to keep them all fairly even in terms of advantages and drawbacks...while also making sure that they're quite powerful but not too powerful.

However, I really didn't think too deeply into it.

[Lurler]

Although I also like the idea, but as we already mentioned (was it me or someone else from the team?) we are not planning to add capital class ships into the core game. It would simply make the game into something else entirely. We want you to be a pilot of your own ship, doing missions, fighting pirates and aliens, etc. But introduction capital ships will simply change the gameplay too much.
Now, saying that, you can actually do a mod even right now that would add these ships into the game. And I am sure someone will eventually make a mod with capital class ships. I would definitely like to play it personally

[Hecter94]

Although I also like the idea, but as we already mentioned (was it me or someone else from the team?) we are not planning to add capital class ships into the core game. It would simply make the game into something else entirely. We want you to be a pilot of your own ship, doing missions, fighting pirates and aliens, etc. But introduction capital ships will simply change the gameplay too much.
Now, saying that, you can actually do a mod even right now that would add these ships into the game. And I am sure someone will eventually make a mod with capital class ships. I would definitely like to play it personally

Ah, yes. I completely understand.

As I said, it's not a game idea or suggestion (hence why it wasn't posted in the game ideas and suggestions forum) but rather...just a fun thing little thing to talk about and discuss.

If anybody has any other thoughts about what kind of "Capital Ship" you'd like to see....I would love to hear them. ^.^

[Hammish]

Want to help me balance the battleship I'm hoping to add eventually?

It's a bit different from yours, though, because I wanted to try something unique in that it wasn't a ship you'd constantly want your nose facing a bad guy.  Basically, think of a board at the stern and aft with two turrets at each in an over/under configuration.  Enough turn on them so that you can bring them all to bear on on a broadsides, but otherwise are limited to two on a given target.

Also, the carrier is theoretically possible in some regards right now, and was something else I can considered.  I don't know how you could make the fighters have any sort of AI, but you -could- design a weapon system that would produce drone-shaped 'missiles' that moved slowly toward your target.  You could then configure those drones to scatter submunitions at regular intervals along the flight path, and those submunitions could be faster missiles.  The end result would be a fighter that would move slowly toward the target launching missiles forward that would then unfortunately kamikaze the target ship.

The other disadvantage that I can think of would be that if you lost target lock your 'fighter drones' and any shots they launched would also stop tracking.  But that does kinda fit with the concept of 'drones' as well.

Now you've kinda made me want to try this out.

I'm not sure if it's possible to make a tech tree open up in such a way, though.  Possibly through quests... I'm curious about that as well.  My first thought was that if you equipped the ship it'd grant an attribute that would unlock the tech, but to the best of my knowledge skills are only allowed to have other skills set as prerequisites, not effects.

[Hecter94]

Want to help me balance the battleship I'm hoping to add eventually?

I could certainly try

It's a bit different from yours, though, because I wanted to try something unique in that it wasn't a ship you'd constantly want your nose facing a bad guy.  Basically, think of a board at the stern and aft with two turrets at each in an over/under configuration.  Enough turn on them so that you can bring them all to bear on on a broadsides, but otherwise are limited to two on a given target.

To tell you the truth, that was originally how mine was going to be set up as well.
The design of /my/ battleship was based off of the Shogun Battleship (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/151/9/6/RA3_Shogun_Battleship_by_omkr01.jpg) originally.
With a forward gun that could fire either forward or to the side, and an aft gun that could fire either backwards or to the side, making it suited to broadside attacks.
(That's also where the somewhat "random" ramming buffs came from)
However, I thought it was too similar to yours, so I tried to make it a bit more unique.

Also, the carrier is theoretically possible in some regards right now, and was something else I can considered.  I don't know how you could make the fighters have any sort of AI, but you -could- design a weapon system that would produce drone-shaped 'missiles' that moved slowly toward your target.  You could then configure those drones to scatter submunitions at regular intervals along the flight path, and those submunitions could be faster missiles.  The end result would be a fighter that would move slowly toward the target launching missiles forward that would then unfortunately kamikaze the target ship.

The other disadvantage that I can think of would be that if you lost target lock your 'fighter drones' and any shots they launched would also stop tracking.  But that does kinda fit with the concept of 'drones' as well.

That actually sounds pretty interesting, would make sense for drones too, but then the carrier would need some way of defending itself from attacks too....mainly because I imagined that these smaller fighters would stay close to the ship and basically protect it.
Attacking with drones seems to work, but defending with drones could be a problem.

Now you've kinda made me want to try this out.

I'm not sure if it's possible to make a tech tree open up in such a way, though.  Possibly through quests... I'm curious about that as well.  My first thought was that if you equipped the ship it'd grant an attribute that would unlock the tech, but to the best of my knowledge skills are only allowed to have other skills set as prerequisites, not effects.

Would it be possibly to use an inventory item instead? Something like a set of quests from a named NPC which unlock better aspects of your ship?
Hmmm. How varied are the effects of boosters? Could you do something like...
Make a special set of "boosters" that can only be mounted on a Capital Ship.
Make a quest that requires you to do whatever, but rewards you with a "Booster" that's like...."Repair Drones"
And is only equipable on your capital ship.


Then that booster, once equipped, could apply an effect to your Carrier called something like "drone_repair" which gives you slow hull regeneration.


Is that possible? Or are boosters not moddable in that way?

[Hammish]

Boosters are 100% modifiable, just like other equipable gear, so... should actually be possible, yeah.  A hierarchy might look something like:

Make a new effect group, possibly under qualifications, for carrier_boosts.
Equipping the actual carrier hull sets the effect carrier_boosts = 1, which would show as Carrier Modules = OK
On the actual boost item, the requirement to equip would be carrier_boost = 1, plus any other requirements you had skill-wise.  The attribute desired would be consumables_structure_repair_value, which I believe is set in HP/second.

The other option you would have would be to make it a device instead of a booster, requiring manual triggering, but I haven't tinkered much with the scripts for those.  I can actually test out the above solution a bit later, wouldn't take long to rig it for a test ship and see.

As for the actual fighters, I could see two ways of doing it: either make sure the carrier saved one weapon slot for a 'personal defense turret', or rerig the drones to be devices instead (again, should be possible, but much more intricate to code) and leave all the actual ship weapon slots as guns it could use to defend itself.  I actually kinda like the first option more myself, though, because I would assume that the balancing aspect of the carrier would be a weak personal defense.   You could perhaps give it like a single II or III energy mount on a 360 degree arc atop it, allowing it to mount a beam weapon and giving it some defense against missiles much like a CIWS/phalanx would.

BeLugh might have better options, though.  I think he's delved quite a bit deeper into the device scripting than I have.

[BeLugh]

I didn't tinker with boosters yet.

For devices you can definitely implement a heal. But i am not sure if you can make it a heal over time which looks smooth.
But it is no problem at all to make it heal for example 20% of max structure(hp) and add a cooldown (like 15 seconds) on it.
A device with heal over time is possible as well (but i did not tinker with the timemultiplier yet), but devices always need to be activated.
For boosters you can for example modify calcucateship.js to check whether you have one or several of those boosters equipped and then add a heal
(In calculateship not just all effects but also fuel usage is written in. So it would be executed as often as fuel gets calculated and everything else)

Bigger problem would be to have a nice animation for repair drones repairing your ship!

For offensive drones i was thinking about carriers already. Having a squadron with others assisting you would be easier. When you have a carrier they need to dock and accept orders
For example devices are used to give orders: attack, move, mine, dock on carrier, follow me
The carrier could have 1 missiletype weapon. When fired it starts one fighter, it would have like 3 sec cd as they cant start at the same time. When one of them docks, ammo gets refilled. The fighters would needed to be saved in a n array (or structure array to store if they are docked ->repair), saving at least the hp of the fighter. When one is dead he cant dock on ship->no refilled ammo until you dock on a station
devices for attack move and mine will have a target (like mining lasers) follow and dock are just usable like consumables

When you know how to and when you are able to mod the gui somehow you can implement nearly everything which can be realized by a space view-from-top game

[Hecter94]

Boosters are 100% modifiable, just like other equipable gear, so... should actually be possible, yeah.  A hierarchy might look something like:

Make a new effect group, possibly under qualifications, for carrier_boosts.
Equipping the actual carrier hull sets the effect carrier_boosts = 1, which would show as Carrier Modules = OK
On the actual boost item, the requirement to equip would be carrier_boost = 1, plus any other requirements you had skill-wise.  The attribute desired would be consumables_structure_repair_ value, which I believe is set in HP/second.

The other option you would have would be to make it a device instead of a booster, requiring manual triggering, but I haven't tinkered much with the scripts for those.  I can actually test out the above solution a bit later, wouldn't take long to rig it for a test ship and see.

As for the actual fighters, I could see two ways of doing it: either make sure the carrier saved one weapon slot for a 'personal defense turret', or rerig the drones to be devices instead (again, should be possible, but much more intricate to code) and leave all the actual ship weapon slots as guns it could use to defend itself.  I actually kinda like the first option more myself, though, because I would assume that the balancing aspect of the carrier would be a weak personal defense.   You could perhaps give it like a single II or III energy mount on a 360 degree arc atop it, allowing it to mount a beam weapon and giving it some defense against missiles much like a CIWS/phalanx would.

BeLugh might have better options, though.  I think he's delved quite a bit deeper into the device scripting than I have.

A mix of both boosters and devices makes the most sense to me, have some passive abilities and some active abilities.

So we could have boosters that give the effects mentioned? Like the passive hull repair for the Dominator.

Or the Carrier could have a "Repair Drone" device which would basically act like a high level structure repair consumable that recharges.
Actually...having all "drones" as devices seems to be an intriguing suggestion, you could basically say that those are like the "Hangar Bays" for the ship and you get to pick and choose what you want, like...2 bombers, 2 fighters and 2 repair drones....or....4 bombers, 2 fighters.
Customize your ship a bit.
Is it possible to make a device act like the weapon you described? Where it spawns a drone that fires missiles before kamikazing?
Because IMO, that would be the ideal solution...which leaves the weapon slots for just basic guns the Carrier can use to defend itself.

Oh, and the one gun that I had, the level 2 Ballistic mounted near the rear was actually modeled after a CWIS.

I didn't tinker with boosters yet.

For devices you can definitely implement a heal. But i am not sure if you can make it a heal over time which looks smooth.
But it is no problem at all to make it heal for example 20% of max structure(hp) and add a cooldown (like 15 seconds) on it.
A device with heal over time is possible as well (but i did not tinker with the timemultiplier yet), but devices always need to be activated.

Something like that could work with the above system....could you like....have a device called "Repair Drone"
which does like... a 1% heal every second for 60 seconds?
Then has to cool down for a minute or something?
I would like to have them differ from consumables in some way, besides the fact that they have infinite uses.
Hmm....would it be possible to have it as a targetable device?
For instance....target another ship, activate the repair drone and repair them instead of yourself?
That would make sense considering it's a drone and would make it more useful than a simple consumable.

For boosters you can for example modify calcucateship.js to check whether you have one or several of those boosters equipped and then add a heal
(In calculateship not just all effects but also fuel usage is written in. So it would be executed as often as fuel gets calculated and everything else)

That would be better for something like the Dominator, which has a base hull regen over time.

Bigger problem would be to have a nice animation for repair drones repairing your ship!

Yes, I would LOVE to see that, a cool little animation of a repair drone fixing up damage.

For offensive drones i was thinking about carriers already. Having a squadron with others assisting you would be easier. When you have a carrier they need to dock and accept orders
For example devices are used to give orders: attack, move, mine, dock on carrier, follow me

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking, have the ability to make your own little squadron of fighters/bombers and then maybe like a unique "Kamikaze Drone" weapon.

The carrier could have 1 missiletype weapon. When fired it starts one fighter, it would have like 3 sec cd as they cant start at the same time. When one of them docks, ammo gets refilled. The fighters would needed to be saved in a n array (or structure array to store if they are docked ->repair), saving at least the hp of the fighter. When one is dead he cant dock on ship->no refilled ammo until you dock on a station

That'd be perfect if it could be combined with the repair drones.
Launch your attack ships and then use repair drones to keep their health up.
Making the Carrier a very "supportive" unit....whereas the others are more offensive.

devices for attack move and mine will have a target (like mining lasers) follow and dock are just usable like consumables

If we did make them as devices, you'd definitely want an alternate method of mining as I'm sure no-one would want to waste a valuable hanger bay slot for a mining laser.

[BeLugh]

A mix of both boosters and devices makes the most sense to me, have some passive abilities and some active abilities.
So we could have boosters that give the effects mentioned? Like the passive hull repair for the Dominator.

Yes we can definitely have it (I just did not check if you can check which boosters are equipped or if we need a new function for getting the xml_id of the equipped boosters)

Is it possible to make a device act like the weapon you described? Where it spawns a drone that fires missiles before kamikazing?

You could do it like this, but for carriers i suggest using devices for commands

Something like that could work with the above system....could you like....have a device called "Repair Drone"
which does like... a 1% heal every second for 60 seconds?
Then has to cool down for a minute or something?
I would like to have them differ from consumables in some way, besides the fact that they have infinite uses.
Hmm....would it be possible to have it as a targetable device?
For instance....target another ship, activate the repair drone and repair them instead of yourself?
That would make sense considering it's a drone and would make it more useful than a simple consumable.

This is no problem, it is easy to do

That'd be perfect if it could be combined with the repair drones.
Launch your attack ships and then use repair drones to keep their health up.
Making the Carrier a very "supportive" unit....whereas the others are more offensive.

Even when you use up all device slots i guess its possible to use a laser with negative damage for healing (to improve support ability of the carrier)

[Hecter94]

You could do it like this, but for carriers i suggest using devices for commands

The Kamikaze drone sounds very cool though, which is the main reason why I think it would be cool to have.
The Carrier could have it's own little squadron of fighters, but also Kamikaze drones for more..."Direct Damage"

Perhaps it would be best as a weapon, then?

This is no problem, it is easy to do

Awesome

Even when you use up all device slots i guess its possible to use a laser with negative damage for healing (to improve support ability of the carrier)

So, have a drone you can launch that's equipped with a negative damage laser which only targets allies?
Or do you mean give the Carrier itself an actual "healing beam"?
Because I don't like the idea of the Carrier being able to repair things by itself.

[BeLugh]

I was thinking that the capital ship should be equipped with that laser.
If it is possible for ai-controlled drones.... then we already have repair drones including the animation

[Hecter94]

I was thinking that the capital ship should be equipped with that laser.
If it is possible for ai-controlled drones.... then we already have repair drones including the animation

That would be perfect, then.

AI-Controlled drones with a negative damage laser which is set to only target allies.

Healing, support and coolness all in one convenient flying package.

[Hammish]

Does negative damage actually work to heal?  I've never actually tried that.  It seems the engine can handle some negative values but not others; for instance, you can't use a negative value for projectile drag in order to make a shot that speeds up after launch.

Quick question, though: how would you go from an actual weapon slot to a controllable object in space?  For some reason I thought scripting was linked/locked to just module-type slots and that you couldn't really link one to a weapon or a projectile fired by a weapon.  That's the leap I wasn't able to make in my head; with the 'kamikaze drones' I can see how it'd be easily doable, since you only have one projectile that is dispensing other projectiles, but for actual controllable fighters you'd need to have that launcher spawning actual in-game, ID'd assets (which I assume is part of what the array would handle, keeping track of IDs in addition to current states)

Also, might I add, it's nice to have a large collaboration of ideas (design and coding/technical) flowing here, even if we are rapidly approaching the limits of my javascript ability and understanding.